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ClumsyPilot

> there are no street lights in the entire city.

Doesn't this cause issues?

Sounds like it would turn 20 minute walk into a dangerous excercise. Do people walking on foot carry torches?

This sounds really crazy from road safety perspective

I don't mean crime, i mean getting lost and collisions.

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> Do people walking on foot carry torches?

It depends. If there's a full moon out, I often walk without a light. It's wonderful. Otherwise, I use a headlamp.

> Doesn't this cause issues?

No. I think the main effect is that people finish their walks, bike rides, and so forth before dark. Obviously that's impossible for much of the year for people who work 9 to 5, but given the demographics of this community—small business owners with flexible schedules and retirees—it works for most. In particular, there is one woman from a nearby street who walks past my office window every afternoon: in the winter she walks by at 3, and in the summers she walks by around 6 with her husband.

> getting lost

I don't think this is a realistic concern for those with smart phones. Moreover, the hilly topography and lack of cycles in the road network (barring one) make it very easy to remain oriented.

A safety reflector or other high-visibility clothing is a passive method for sending light back at the driver.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_reflector

There are numerous others that support it

https://urbanlabs.uchicago.edu/projects/crime-lights-study

YMMV but it also seems intuitively apparent?

> Do people walking on foot carry torches?

At night, if there is insufficient moonlight? Yes of course. Street lights only exist in urban areas, if you're walking anywhere else in the world at night, a flashlight seems like a logical choice.

OP clearly stated they have an HOA.

If you have an HOA - you live in an urban area. So I'm not sure what your comment alludes to. If I live in such a place, I expect to be able to walk on sidewalks without a flashlight.

> If I live in such a place, I expect to be able to walk on sidewalks without a flashlight.

We don't have any sidewalks. People either take trails adjacent to roads or walk on the roads themselves. Everyone is aware that pedestrians and equestrians are first class citizens, so residents drive slowly. That's not true for some delivery drivers and domestic workers, but we find the risk-reward tradeoff reasonable enough to have left the lighting provision in our CC&Rs for the last eighty years. Sometimes, expectations are at odds with the realities of what is tolerable in terms of safety, good for local flora and fauna, and pleasurable for ourselves.

I distinctly remember trick-or-treating in suburbia with a flashlight. A flashlight at night is not so odd, that's pretty much what they're for.

(And yes, there were sidewalks...)

> I expect to be able to walk on sidewalks without a flashlight.

There are any number of ways to provide illumination that also mitigates light pollution. This generally means placing metal hats on any external light sources (vertical or horizontal) that effectively pushes the light down and minimizes leakage. The worst offenders in my area are the globular light sources that emit light in all directions.

Half the month, in really dark places, the moon is sufficient.

> Half the month, in really dark places, the moon is sufficient

Came here to say this. Unfortunately, most people in urban environments have no idea. I spent literally decades walking at night in an area with no streetlights. Your eyes adjust to the dark, and anyone who comes along with a flashlight really annoys you.

Edit: I should note, that in all my time doing this, the only time I ever ran into a problem was when a herd of deer came running at me in the darkness. I don’t think a flashlight would have helped.

light would have stopped them in their tracks

I guess you are correct, but I was too busy enjoying the night sky.

Weather permitting too, but yes. Moonlight is quite bright once your eyes have adjusted to it.

When you look at those darkness maps where I live is about as dark as the darkest places in the USA. For us the moon is the real light pollution. Accidentally look at the moon directly and your night vision is shot for a few minutes.

Yeah, not so much in Australia. We have a crap ton of dangerous snakes, and you need that torch to be able to see them on the path.

“Don't ever step on a snake

Or you're making a big mistake!

For the sake of your protection

I suggest you change direction

Get out of there for good, for

goodness sake!” (Don Spencer)

That's fair. Our only really dangerous snake is a cottonmouth. Even our rattlers and copperheads are mostly nonlethal and nonaggressive.

I was limbing a tree in the pasture, looked down after dropping a limb and a copperhead was just sitting next to my foot. Wasn't ready to strike, just watching me like dudes come out with chainsaws and cut trees next to him on the daily.

It depends on the time of year, the temperature, the area, and the time of night. I used to wander about in the country as a kid by moonlight in certain areas/times/etc, but I knew it was basically safe. Other times it would’ve been literal suicide.

I don’t think any snake is genuinely “aggressive”, but most will bite if you step on them. It’s one of those funny things about moonlight; you can see, but you can’t see detail.

The rattlers around here could fuck you up, particularly if you can't get medical attention within a few hours because you're disabled on the ground alone at night. But fortunately, rattlers rattle (usually) so the snakes actually help people avoid this sort of accident.

Unfortunately, may people kill rattlesnakes when they become aware of them, which is usually after the snake started rattling. So there is now a selective pressure on rattlesnakes to stop rattling. Very misguided.

In my limited experience, streetlights encourage snakes. streetlights bring insects, insects bring birds, birds bring snakes. The snakes are not always under the light but in the trees around the area.

But even with streetlights, you are absolutely right, always bring a torch. Ive seen a snake get stepped on, but fortunately have never done it myself.

> birds bring snakes

Where do you live that snakes hunt birds at night? Or what about birds attracts snakes???

Tasty tasty night parrot.

Birds nest near food sources. Snakes live near birds. The whole ecosystem takes a while to build, its not immediate.

Thank you for the laugh though, I visualised the whole sequence taking place one after another and it was hillarious.

My rule for night hiking is only in places I already know.

Moonlight is sufficient if I'm familiar with a trail or street.

There's no way I'd try it somewhere new. Not enough detail.

But I would encourage anyone who has a familiar trail they feel is safe to try hiking it after dark (assuming it's allowed). Really unique experience.

Fortunately, no[1]. I live in Tucson AZ, and it's wonderful. We are the home of https://www.darksky.org/

You excluded crime from your comment, but I want to say that anecdotally, places where there are street lights are where the street crime happens.

[1] https://thefifthestate.com.au/innovation/lighting-innovation...

Losing the Dark - Flat Screen Version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd82jaztFIo

Cars are usually equipped with headlights. ;)

On a more serious note, it’s pretty common for UK roads to lack street lights. Particularly in more rural areas. The majority of my drive home from work is unlit.

I live in a small village with no streetlights, and lovely views of the stars. It is very dark here at night, was a real shock coming from the town, I used to walk around where I was previously, that was not well lit but the amount of ambient light was actually quite high. Very different here.

> Do people walking on foot carry torches?

I find a flashlight and a small pocket knife are essential every day carry. It's a quality of life issue for me, I want to be able to examine something at any time of day, plus street lights are intermittent and I walk a lot. I live in Oakland, a major city, but still insist on turning on a flashlight when I cross the street. People don't pay enough attention.

I'd be carrying more than a pocket knife as essential in Oakland, lately.

> small pocket knife are essential every day carry

In Britain we imprison people for carrying butter knives

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1487762/Butter-knife...

I walk through my neighborhood at night, and some houses have streetside lights, but most do not. I always bring a flashlight but typically don't use it. I do teach my kids they have to be very careful of cars, because they are too short to be seen.

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