Reversing into a car park safer, more efficient for driver and pedestrians | Hacker News Reader

Reversing into a car park safer, more efficient for driver and pedestrians

abc.net.au

16 pointsadrian_mrd81 comments

The very first problem you encounter with this approach is that while you are setting up to back into a spot, the car behind you thinks you are passing by; so they nose in and take it.

Or they don't understand you're about to stop and backup, so they pull behind you too close, preventing you from reversing. Even if they realize and want to backup to give you space, there may be someone behind them already.

This is something that only works if everyone is taught and if everyone agrees to behave well. This might be more feasible in regions where parallel parking is common and drivers are accustomed to stopping way back to allow the stopped car in front to reverse.

Don’t you have indicators on cars in your country?

Here we just put on an indicator to tell the driver behind we intend to reverse into a parking space. If they take it anyway, then they’re just an arsehole, but that’s a universal problem.

How do you tell the difference between a blinker indicating you intend to reverse into a spot and a blinker indicating you are turning forward to go to the next aisle? You can't indicate reverse until you pass the space, and often it's too late if someone is behind you.

You should leave space between you and the car in front of you (always), at least one car-length, so if you follow this, it's easy to see when someone is blinking>stopping>reversing because when they stop, you haven't blocked their space to reverse in anyways.

You must live in a civilized land.

What you describe is how things should work, but in practice it's not that way in many countries. I've driven in many countries, and what you describe has only been common (in my experience) in Netherlands. But even there, it doesn't always work.

Parallel street parking is very common. The car wanting to reverse into a parallel spot will pull past it, put on the hazard lights, and then back in. Usually cars behind, if they are not already following too closely (which does happen a lot), will stop short to give you space to back in. But even in NL, this is less common in a parking lot that is nearly full. People are circling, desperate for a place to park (since the nearest next alternative could be a long way away), and will absent-mindedly or intentionally swoop into a spot that you just passed by.

> You must live in a civilized land.

As noted elsewhere, my driving experience is in Europe, South America, North America (sans US) and Asia, some places more civilized than others. I've never driven in Netherlands though (closest been Belgium), mostly North, South and East Europe.

Turn the indicator on as your passing the space, and slow down so you stop partially blocking the space, put your car into reverse, and wait patiently for the person behind you to extract themselves from your rear end.

And what about the car behind him? He's now up on your tail, wondering wtf is wrong with you and why are you blocking a spot he wants...

The only reliable way to do this is to stop before you pass the spot, have your passenger get out, and then the passenger blocks the road and pretends to give you guidance on how to back in. That makes it obvious, and it also physically prevents them from stealing the spot unless they're comfortable with driving over a human.

> And what about the car behind him? He's now up on your tail, wondering wtf is wrong with you and why are you blocking a spot he wants...

What about them? Just wait till they bugger off. They’ll figure it out eventually.

My driving instructor in the UK taught me two things: 1) when you're in the reverse, you are already at the bottom of the food chain so there is no need to indicate, basically do not move until you're 100% certain it safe to do so, 2) when you follow a car, keep your distance, when the car in front of you stops, stop so far that you can see their rear tires so you have enough space to drive around.

Based on those two rules when the situation described here happens, there's only one solution: I will stand there in reverse and wait for you to back up if you park in my bumper while I'm willing to reverse into a spot because, f** you, keep your distance, thank you very much.

I'm not going to think for you. You think for yourself. Maybe the car in front of you wants to reverse park and that's why they drive so slow...

> The very first problem you encounter with this approach is that while you are setting up to back into a spot, the car behind you thinks you are passing by; so they nose in and take it. Or they don't understand you're about to stop and backup, so they pull behind you too close, preventing you from reversing.

You blink to the side where the spot is. Maybe in the US things are differently, but in most if not all places I've driven (Europe, South America, North America (sans US) and Asia), all drivers seems to understand that blinking to the left when there is parking on the left and no actual turn, means I'm about to back into that spot. They adjust accordingly and leave me space. Haven't really had any issues with this for the ~30 years I've been driving.

I have problems with this all the time in NZ even though I'm indicating for parallel parking spaces so the driver behind must know I have to back in.

I hate the sense of entitlement that these dicks have that they won't give room to allow someone to park, and then worse will try to squeeze past on the outside at the inconvenience of the parking car and oncoming traffic. Your 30 seconds is not worth more than everyone elses.

One trick is to halt in front of the parking spot, wait for the car on the back to stop, set the signal to turn, move slowly to express your intention to park

I just blink the blinkers in direction of parking spot. So far 100% of the drivers get it

N = 1

> Head-in parking minimises the risk of denting an adjacent parked car

I'm not convinced about this, for anything other than small or midsize cars without reversing sensors/cameras (which most recent cars have).

The large-ish wagon (Subaru Outback) I have is pretty impossible to park head-in in most off-street car parks, whereas it's quite easy/safe to reverse into even quite tight spots, particularly with the use of the camera.

When you are backing out of a parking spot everybody knows what you are doing. When you back into a spot, everybody is confused, you disrupt traffic, it potentially causes conflict when somebody pulls into your spot because they just thought you are waiting for another spot ahead.

Reversing makes it easier to maneuver the car and straighten it. Since the front wheels turn, you can back-in at more difficult angles and don't need to go in straight.

I don't think backing into a parking spot is safer than backing out. The article first says the lack of pedestrians makes reversing safe; then it goes on to say the presence of pedestrians makes pulling out forward safe. Which is it, are there pedestrians or not?

I think most folks are less familiar with driving in reverse than driving forward. Even I aced parallel parking in my driver's test, but I can't back straight out of my driveway to save my life.

The article makes a valid point at the end that good drivers drive well. But I think the headline overstates a conclusion of a single person.

It’s less likely that the parking spot itself is occupied by a pedestrian (and it’s easier to verify that before reversing into it) than for the area you drive out of it into to have pedestrians heading in and out of their vehicles, and going forward out of the parking spot gives you better visibility to see the pedestrians (and other cars) appearing from behind adjacent cars.

It's easier for pedestrians to notice a car maneuvering into a parking spot than a car starting to move out of a spot.

"When you're reversing out of the car park, you've got two way traffic, people pushing trolleys, kids running around."

And you've got all that while backing into the spot, plus you have to not hit 2 more close obstables that are behind you, in your blind spots.

I'm not buying this for a minute.

Valets park cars all day long. And they back in.

When you are parking, you have much more visibility of oncoming traffic, and the other drivers see you more clearly too. When backing out, you have less visibility and are less visible.

It’s a terrible article. But backing in is absolutely the safer option.

Valets back in because their customers don't care how long it takes them to park the car. They've already gone inside and are about their business. They only care how long it takes the valet to retrieve the car. Their tips depend on retrieving cars quickly. They also have captive lots no one else is driving in, and a system for navigating them that the other valets understand, removing ALL the other complicating factors that cause people to think it might be safer to head in.

You can't extrapolate from their situation to everyone's just because they "park cars all day."

Obviously in terms of pedestrian safety, you're more likely to hit a pedestrian in the open/drive area of the lot rather than in a spot. So backing in is indeed safer for pedestrians. But for just about every other reason, it is impractical.

Also, valets are more practiced and often are parking in areas where only they are placing and moving cars. So it's a more uniform, controlled environment. The cars are probably lined up better, making it easier to get in, and the other cars are probably not moving at the time since only the valets move them occasionally.

> But for just about every other reason, it is impractical.

Personally find backing in much easier that the opposite. You have far more control and manoeuvrability at low speeds when your turning wheels are at the “back” of a vehicle rather than the front. It takes very little time to get used to using mirrors etc when reversing, and then becomes trivial to put cars into all manner of awkward spots that simply impossible to get into when driving forwards.

I remember few times when I just got into driving I was so proud of myself when backing in into a tight spot... then figuring out it was for nothing coz I can't get out of the car

I agree about what you say, but it completely ignores the point you replied to.

You can't practically reverse into a spot when someone drives too closely behind you and prevents you from reversing, or when someone noses into that spot that you appear to have just driven past.

Correct: so since you're more likely to hit a pedestrian in the open area, you want more visibility when entering it on your intended departure from the lot, which is what you get if you had backed in.

Sure, but it’s also obvious to pedestrians that you’re reversing as the car will be in the middle of the traffic lane. Plus your mirrors are aligned to make it very easy to observe pedestrians moving across the space, when reversing out you have literally no way to observe pedestrian traffic that might be about to walk across the back of your vehicle.

When you reverse out of a parking spot, it’s frequently not obvious to pedestrians that the vehicle is moving because the cars on either side obscure not only your view, but also the view of pedestrians.

I would also point out, hitting another car isn’t great, but it’s much better than hitting a person.

Then you also have to try to roll your cart between all the cars to get to the back of your car to unload your stuff. And you must hope that the driver opposite you (behind) didn't back up so close that you now can't open your back door.

Ah, if only we all drove air-cooled Volkswagens...

I guess in some places it's all electric cars with "frunks", so it's no longer a worry. I was actually thinking of Texas, where big SUVs are the norm.

> And you've got all that while backing into the spot,

Not really

> plus you have to not hit 2 more close obstables that are behind you, in your blind spots.

If you didn't hit it in your mirrors, you won't hit it going in unless you did something horribly wrong.

And frankly if you have problems backing in into a spot you shouldn't have driving license as you clearly don't have enough control of the vehicle you're driving to be a safe driver.

You are missing something important. When backing in you went by the intended spot first and looked to verify it was clear. Thus you have no chance of hitting someone in it. You cannot see as well backing, and when backing out there is time for something unseen to get in the way.

I don't buy it either. There is also 2 way traffic when you reverse park and reversing can be challenging either way. There is a high chance of disrupting both lanes of traffic, when parking and leaving, regardless of the way you park. My take away is that it is "safer" to bump a parked car, while trying to park, than possibly of reversing and bumping a person or their wild, uncontrolled, children, running in an active parking lot.

But when you're backing in, you risk hitting the vehicles that you're parking between. This means you risk damaging your own car, so you will behave more carefully.

I'm a huge proponent for backing into parking spaces, and I do that 100% of the time myself because I simply find it easier than driving front-first into a parking space.

But that same argument could be made both ways, no matter if you back into a parking space or not, it's still the same cars.

When backing in the cars around are not moving. When backing out there is sometimes another car in the space across from you backing out at the same time, and this moving car is harder to see.

So the danger you worry about us worse not better backing out.

Not really related to the content, but is "car park" interchangeable with "parking space" in parts of Australia? Or is the article being idiosyncratic?

I tried googling this but Australian websites seem to always use the term "parking space": https://trafficparking.com.au/carpark-layout-design.php

That's fine unless you're going to the store and need access to your trunk to place your purchased items - such as the grocery store.

This is one of those things my dad taught me that stuck with me! The UK's highway code has a specific rule about this on normal roads: "Do not reverse from a side road into a main road. When using a driveway, reverse in and drive out if you can." Backing out is so much more stressful and more dangerous – I get to experience both as my spouse is a 'drive in' so if I ever take their car, I have to reverse out ;-)

It did make me chuckle that the person defending the 'driving straight in' approach in the article is wearing a face mask incorrectly, but my spouse shares their 'easier to load stuff into the trunk' argument which I concede has some merit..

This reminded me of one of those things that will probably bother me forever: while I was getting my license, I was taught to always reverse into parking spots, and one time we were practising parking in a mall parking lot, in my overconfidence over my newly-found knowledge, I rhetorically asked my instructor why all the people are parking forward. She asked me ”yeah, why is that”. Only months later after getting my license, while parking at a supermarket lot, I realized her question wasn’t rhetoric, and she was expecting me to think about it and answer.

In any case, I always reverse into parking spots, except when going shopping.

Even though technically, angling your car into a tight space is easier if you do it in reverse, at this point the space is so small that it would be difficult to open my door anyway.

I always go front first into a perpendicular parking space because this offers me the best visibility advantage against the very real possibility of denting my car and others when going in.

Getting out is comparatively easy, just go slow. And I have yet to encounter a situation where other drivers are not extremely careful and easily yielding around potentially backing up parked cars.

I was taught to always back-in to a parking spot when possible. Reason being, backing up (now or later) takes slightly longer, and while you have the extra ~30 seconds now, you may not have the luxury of that extra time when you need to leave (e.g. in some sort of evacuation order). So, spend the time now to save yourself later.

Edit: I was taught this by my dad who did a lot of work at chemical plants and oil refineries. Probably made more of a difference for him than for a software engineer like myself. Regardless, the principle still applies.

My work has taken me to a refinery a few times. It always made me very uneasy being in a place where they taught us to back in to parking spaces in orientation and there are "explosion proof" shelters in various places. Having watched US Chemical Safety Board videos doesn't help either.

Backing in to parking spaces is standard clipboard warrior best practice stuff and has been for the past couple decades. It reduces backing accidents from a tiny number per huge number of man hours to a tinier number per huge number of man hours on average (not necessarily for a specific work flow, best practices are not a replacement for good judgement and evaluation of specific circumstances). It has nothing to do with the safety of a job site and has more to do with the size of the company that runs it (small companies don't tend to issue blanket policies for that kind of stuff).

Or just do what I do and park far away and walk. No kids, pedestrians or trolleys. Nobody opening their door and slamming it into my car. My fat ass gets exercise.

Or even better don't own car like me and use public transport, no problems with parking and my BMI is 19.8.

I hate to break it to you, but if the only exercise you get is from parking your car a bit further away, you're getting way too little exercise. You don't have to go out for runs or whatever, but at least take some walks. Exercises your brain as well :)

> He said while reversing into a busy shopping centre car park was indeed a way to show off your expertise behind the wheel, it was also a much safer option.

And how exactly will you load your grocery into car parked in reverse? Most of the cars have trunk/cargo space in the back, so reversing while parking in SHOPPING centre makes absolutely no sense, good luck loading the car, which is why pretty much everyone doing grocery just park head in.

You just open the boot.

Au parking spots are big enough and the cars are usually not f150 "trucks".

How exactly will you open the boot, if it's facing the other car parking against you (or even better wall in underground parking) and you can't get there through narrow space between two cars with shopping cart?

Use your hands. I am out shopping right now. I will go back to my car put things in the boot and record a video for those who seem unable to understand the basics of how this situation will unfold.

Your fictional situation is really not that common.

The problem may be that US carparks are just poorly designed.

Editi decided not to post video as there is an infinite what ifs that I can't be bothered to answer.

Backing in is safer than head-in but if it’s possible, because sometimes it isn’t, pull-through is safer than backing in.

Caveat: Head-in is more appropriate for angled spaces.

Yeah angled spaces help but head-in is pretty much just "well, there is wall in front and I need to load groceries" case for me

Classic Seinfeld https://youtu.be/4RMQEBWo1aQ

I was taught this in a defensive driving class I took in my teens. Then I was ticketed a couple years later for backing into a space.

> Then I was ticketed a couple years later for backing into a space

I'm sorry, but what? How? When? Where? What possible law could you break while backing into a space?

I've seen many, many parking lots with signs explicitly forbidding backing into spots, so that could be a reason

When the signs tell you to do something dangerous you should ignore them.

If you get a lawyer you can probably fight this in court. In appeals (read expensive) the court will probably overturn the law, you should have no problems finding experts in safe driving to tell the courts what is safe.

I doubt anyone is going to bother paying a lawyer + paid experts to fight a $100 parking ticket.

Granted, I've never driven in the US, but in the rest of North America, South America, Europa and Asia, but I have never seen such a sign. Seems to be a US exclusivity.

Thanks for explaining :)

It's hard to recall exactly where I've seen them, but I think typically only in lots where either the lot is very congested (like airport parking garages) or where spots and aisles are very tight (making backing in a more difficult maneuver).

In my experience, drivers in the US at least are not very good at backing their cars up. I feel like the likelihood of an average driver in my area hitting a car parked next to them while trying to back into a spot would be quite high. Also, when I do see cars who backed into spots, they often did a very poor job of it and are not centered within the spot, making the spot next to them even more tight or sometimes unusable.

I do agree that backing out of a spot feels very dangerous (even more so as I get older), especially when sandwiched between 2 large vehicles. Personally I try to counteract that by checking everything I can see multiple times and then backing out very slowly, giving me additional opportunity to keep checking mirrors and also giving others a chance to signal me. I generally do not back into spots for other reasons mentioned in this thread - it's just not common around here and so others do not expect it and so they pull up too close behind you before you start to reverse, and also it limits access to the rear of the car for loading up purchases.

I was searching this a bit more online and someone suggested another "good" reason for such a sign: backing in hides the rear-mounted license plate. I'm sure that's the reason in at least some places (such as airport parking), as it is common for police to run the plates of every car both to determine how long you've parked and also to check for outstanding tickets.

Most states in the US do not require a front-mounted plate.

US stupidity it seems. From what I managed to google two reasons I saw was "coz they might hit shrubbery" and "some states dont require plates on front of the car"(WTF) "and if you back in police can't see them and check"

Over here you aren't allowed to park rear of the vehicle towards sidewalk if it's directly adjacent to parking spot. Sadly the rule isn't enforced and my grandma once got hit on a sidewalk by a food truck backing up to unload.

In Argentina parking spots tend to be small (average car sizes are also smaller), so we usually park reverse first, otherwise is close to impossible to fit the car in the spot with any amount of fine control.

Most parking lots make it mandatory.

As I understand it, in Houston Texas you can tell who works for Schlumberger because all the employees get their auto insurance from that company and they are required to back in to parking spots

I'm willing to believe this, but want to take the space to beg people not to attempt to back into diagonal parking against the one-way flow of traffic.

One of our local parks intentionally has Back-In Angled Parking on its adjacent one-way street. Granted, it is in a residential, traffic-calmed area with speedbumps that is primarily for residents and park-users and not intended to be used to transit the area.

You still should, sometimes that means you have to go against the arrows. If the arrows are painted correct it is easy to back in,if not the lot owner should be considered at fault in any accident for incorrect directions

I've always taken the fact people DON'T always back in as evidence of the HUGE discount factor people apply to things in the future. You either back in or back out. Backing out is self evidently harder, more dangerous, more stressful etc. But it won't happen for at least 1h so people accept it the same way they run up credit card debts they don't need or don't deal with minor health issues until they're life threatening.

I just assume one of 2 reasons:

* there is a wall and they need to pack/unpack something from the boot.

* they are incompetent at parking.

I don't buy "I wanted to save a bit of time now", backing up doesn't take all that much longer if you're competent at it and stress of having to back out with no vision is not worth it.

I dislike not being in the middle of the parking space, so I tend to re-enter multiple times when I have to head in. Back in takes less time for me (but I agree that this is a weird obsession).

Backing out is easier in one respect, because you are backing onto a road or open parking area that's much wider than a car-width. Backing in requires maneuvering into a narrow spot that's only slightly wider than the car itself. You can't "miss" backing into the road again, but you can miss backing into a parking spot and it makes you feel really stupid for "showing off" and not driving straight in like most people do. Maybe this is just my parking anxiety showing...

You're supposed to have an easier time controlling your car in reverse. At least in all cars I drove, including my father utility truck with only side mirrors (and tbh, the small convex mirror below the regular one should be present on every vehicle).

When the parking spots are parallel to the road, I see people back in all the time, so I know it should be true for everyone.

Easier is relative :) You have better maneuverability in a way, but it's harder too because you're looking the wrong way, and the steering wheel turns opposite way to that which you are used to. I always have to think to myself "left hand down means the back goes over there...", it's not as instinctive as driving forwards.

Um... The manoeuvres are identical in terms of geometry. Only direction changes. The only question is, do you want to be going forwards or backwards at various points. So it cannot be wider one way or the other.

(assuming your car is a rectangle)

You need to back out in both cases, literally zero difference whether you do it when arriving or leaving makes no difference, but loading your grocery when parked head in is way more convenient than the other way in which case it can be striaght up impossible with car parked against you or the wall in underground garage and narrow spaces between cars where you can't fit shopping cart.

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