Conspiracy Theorists Are Coming for the 15-Minute City | Hacker News Reader

Conspiracy Theorists Are Coming for the 15-Minute City

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16 pointsrbanffy17 comments

Conspiracy: you will not be allowed to travel more than 15 minutes from your house

Reality: you should be at most 15 minutes walking distance to a primary care physician, grocery store, primary school, gym, park

On one hand, you have a lot of people online making arguments about rural living being ecologically harmful, an economic drain on the country, because (among other reasons) it requires cars to work. Then you have these other people suggesting ways to revise cities that reduce the need for cars. So some rural people connect these two dots, perhaps not always unfairly, and interpret the walkable city activism as people advocating for the eradication of their preferred rural/car lifestyle. And predictably, they don't like that very much, and don't have kind words for such advocates.

Assuming these conspiracy theorists actually exist, there's an easy way to prove them wrong without pejorative-laden propaganda pieces like this: make one of these cities that people will actually want to live in.

I worked hard to move out of the city and have some space. I took the tradeoff in accessibility in exchange for the financial and personal freedom that allows. Build a higher density city where housing prices don't make me work another 10 years, and is free from crime, high taxes, noise, and overbearing laws, and I'll be happy to move back.

Being able to walk to a restaurant is great and all, but isn't worth the tradeoff currently. It's not even close, I'd say.

What city did you try?

Lived in several of the DC metro area cities (mainly on the Northern VA side) for 12 yrs. Was a good area compared to many other cities I've visited, but I'm glad to not be there anymore and wouldn't have been able to retire early given COL there.

It's a classic tragedy of the commons. It's not easy to build such a city, even if everyone agreed that it would be better. It's difficult to get people to buy into a set of rules that would improve everyone's lives, if they think that somebody will be getting a bigger slice of the commons than they will.

It's even harder when there are people who devote their lives to making it harder. People will create Gish gallops of false information to instill fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Then they'll point to the lack of successes -- because the experiments you ask for never get done.

It takes a supreme act of will -- practically a benevolent dictator -- to get from here to there. There are places that are trying it, and the preliminary results are positive. Look at Paris and Barcelona, among others.

That doesn't mean you, personally, will like such a city life. But some people like what cities bring, and like that they are more energy-efficient than living elsewhere.

La Rochelle. Barcelona and Lisbon maybe. Although all three cities are plagued by tourists once summer is there.

Over the last few weeks I've seen a handful of submissions about "the 15-minute city" on Hacker News, but it's always had the additional mention of conspiracy theorists in the title. Is anyone able to explain why that is?

https://archive.is/tDhK7

Is there any evidence that the "15 minute city" actually works? Because.. if it works, then why do you care about "conspiracy theorists?"

Pumping out propaganda like this probably doesn't help.

> Is there any evidence that the "15 minute city" actually works?

History? Before cars, every city was a 15 min city -- by necessity.

The "Fuck Cars" crowd often really seems to get upset when you tell them you prefer the personal autonomy that using a car offers even at the expense of walkable cities. And they often seem completely baffled when someone actually likes the suburbs, having a yard, not living like a sardine in a highly taxed and regulated municipality, etc. So is it really a "conspiracy theory" to be opposed to the sweeping changes they want to make to infrastructure and society?

Does it say, that then everybody has to live 15 minutes away from everything. It targets big polluted cities to make them a better living. Nobody says, you are disallowed to have more space for you if you want to and living in suburbs. That's exactly part of conspiracy theories.

I grew up and lived very long in Berlin. I rarely needed a car, never owned one there and I know many people who moved to Berlin and then got rid of their cars, as they didn't use it anymore. Berlin is not an example of a 15-minute-city but much better in a way of everything is close by, instead of having one center, it has several.

You can apply same for Zurich. Zurich is small in comparison to other european capitals (or capitals around the world in general). So in around 30 minutes walking you can be everywhere. Still a lot of cars there, but it is just so much more convenient, that you don't need it. But if you wanna use it, sure go ahead. And according to many rankings it is one of the best cities to live in (and I would agree with that).

My problem with the article is that it builds something of a straw man "conspiracy theorist" to battle against, instead of looking at the actual problem:

"The plan will require local residents to apply for permits to drive on certain streets" and the glossed over "filters"

This immediately creates an economic structure where only the wealthy would be able to freely drive while ushering everyone else into something of a forced utopia.

There are plenty of organic "15-minute neighborhoods" all over Europe (and even in the USA) where people voluntarily surrender cars (I'm one of those people) but forcing people to do this only fuels weird culture wars. Build truly car free infrastructure first and residents will ditch cars freely.

If car drivers would actually pay the price it cost (i.e. stop gov subsidizing suburbs / managing parking minimums) and let people who actually live in the cities decide where cars can drive, then we'd be cool

Well according to this source: https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/01/25/15-minute-city-plan...

Part of Oxford's 15 minutes city is to fine anyone that leaves their zone.

This is then corroborated by this source: https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-02-19/five-arrests-as...

that says people are protesting that there is a 70lb fine for leaving the city.

So this headline is dishonest.

>> Part of Oxford's 15 minutes city is to fine anyone that leaves their zone.

You are being dishonest. The fine is for driving through zones[1], not unlike fines for driving in city centers that are seen across the world.

[1]: "Under these new filters, residents will be able to drive freely around their own neighbourhoods but will be fined up to £70 for driving into other neighbourhoods through the filters." https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2023/01/25/15-minute-city-plan...

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