> There’s no easy way to say this: I have made the difficult decision to lay off over six thousand of you. In the past two years, we have achieved huge wins together. But unfortunately, the macroeconomic environment has shifted in ways none of us could have foreseen, from an economy in which I did feel like paying you, to one in which I’d rather not.
About the only offers I've gotten are a systems architect role starting at 50k, where they then come back on the second interview and say its 30k since I'm not qualified since I don't have a degree. Take it or leave it.
I have a decade of direct experience doing this work and have set up hundreds of clients with cloud or hybrid depending on regulatory requirements. 50k was low for that work, but now 30?
Bunch of scumbags out there.
Take it and keep looking
Or take it and maliciously comply with whatever they want in the most brutal way possible
I would rather flip burgers than provide my hard-earned and considerable expertise for glass beads. Its such a waste that exploitation is the norm, and if you don't go for it you can't use your expertise. I'm damn good at what I do, and that kind of interference in labor relations should be illegal.
Fortunately for me my savvy investments cover my fixed expenses so I'm not desperate to put food on the table. This kind of thing is fairly common for those without a degree, and in my opinion it is truly a despicable type of employment discrimination.
The paper ceiling is real, and I'm starting to feel it as well. Past a certain point, it really doesn't matter how "good" you are at what you do, all that matters is pedigree. Constantly having to prove yourself at all times is exhausting. And you can forget about ever even being considered by any "hard tech" companies.
It's a shame. Making it in this industry as a self taught dev used to be a source of pride. Now it's become a scarlet letter.
I can't agree more, teaching yourself these things you come to intuitive insights and understandings that aren't taught, and most likely can't be taught in any good way. Experience that shows you can perform and do the role should trump all else.
Do what they want just make it difficult.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And in this case they’re playing a very stupid game.
1 perk of being childless is you really only have to worry about feeding yourself I guess
(I am not a childfree proponent)
Or somehow thinks "within [their] means" means that they're untouchable and unfirerable. Bet the general sentiment towards unemployment and collective bargaining has changed around here recently! Or not, tech workers are great at excusing-exceptionalism.
EDIT: This actually makes me wonder. I would really like to see data about peoples' empathy regarding unemployment/homelessness/unions and their ability to withstand an unexpected job-loss - how much "F you" money do they have saved, how much do they live conservatively?
The folks around me born into money are much more comfortable "spending their paycheck" than those of us that came from more middle-class backgrounds and graduated into comfortable money.
That is absolutely not a “very, very, very, very long time”. You can’t compare the cost of a studio in Albuquerque with a salary from the Bay Area.
1. https://www.avaloncommunities.com/california/sunnyvale-apart... - 1 bedrooms here start at 2800 and this isn’t even a good location apart from reasonable commutes on the 101.
Given that moving also incurs a significant cost (outside of a lease breaking fee), you have to be sure you won’t find work for >6 months for that strategy to pay off.
Anyway, it takes longer than you think, especially if you had to relocate to take the new job. Once you take into account paying off that type of stuff, paying car insurance, car payment, funding your 401k, etc, you’ll be lucky if you can buffer one month for each month.
Maybe I've read too much FIRE financial independence content though.
Add a car payment, car insurance, and you're probably looking at 3 months.
Edit: that's also not supposed to imply that folks only have a single month's worth of salary saved. Just trying to highlight that your comment had some wonky numbers.
Having left a job of 12 years, I am gradually working up my next phase -- new job, my own company, side gigs... it's both exciting to contemplate and stressful in these increasingly difficult times.
But coming home and dealing with family stuff, both good and bad, is a welcome distraction, usually. YMMV, of course!
If I do get laid off, it's a bonus with the extra severance, if not, being prepared is relieving in and of itself.
I don't want to downplay the stress that comes from working in an environment like this. And news articles showing how thousands are being laid off can be really stressful, especially as jobs are means for housing, immigration, feeding your family! While you should always be prepared for the worst, it's by no means a certainly that you will be impacted by lay-offs.
When I read that the OP fully expects to be laid off; I hope they're wrong, and statistically they are. I don't say this to take away from the real pain that comes from this uncertainty, but more to offer a ray of hope.
You are absolutely right. I think it's just a bit of a personal reckoning that I'm coming to terms with lately, given the prospect of losing my job.
I've spent the last decade committing my entire life to software. I eat, think, sleep, and breathe software. It's the sole source of my sense of self worth. But I don't have a college degree, and it feels like things have changed dramatically over that decade. The market is flush with CS grads with 5+ years of experience now, and I know that I don't stand a chance against them in landing a job. I think the vast majority of my anxiety now is that I will never get another job again after being laid off. I have no other skills or education, so it's either six figures making software, or flipping burgers for me.
Keep your chin up, things will be OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper
If you've been the ant you'd have prepared for the winter. I guess in reality most of us fit somewhere in between the ant and the grasshopper. It'll teach us all a bit of prudence we'd do well to remember thereafter.
For sure, one should not overextend themselves, but conversely you can do everything right (live below your means, invest vs frivolous spending, robust emergency fund) and still fail.
The anxiety of those faced with this reality is understandable, and there is substantial data demonstrating the harm of such an environment (chronic stress) to the human.
Someone with this perspective, please, help me understand - Give me a base salary, a rent, and a monthly expense that doesn't let you save up 6months of runway after 2+ years of employment.
I wonder, why would an ubermensch feel the need to spend their day doing this?
I mean realistically we're not facing 3rd world famine here. Things are probably going to be less comfortable for the next few years, and some of the most overinflated salaries might not return for a long while, but there are still going to be plenty of reasonable opportunities out there. That might mean relocating to a place where real estate isn't so inflated, or working on something less sexy, maybe taking an unrelated job for a few years, but nothing worse than what the overwhelming majority of people already live comfortably doing. You don't need to put enough away to support yourself for the rest of your life, just enough to let you land on your feet.
- try to maximize savings starting right now
- cancel all subscriptions
- look for a roommate
- look up how to apply for unemployment
- look up how to apply for food stamps
- research local food banks
- cut all luxury spending
- research what loans you have that can forgiven via bankruptcy
The act of doing something proactive can feel very therapeutic, as opposed to waiting for a negative event that may or may not happen.
There's a general frantic nature to management lately. Every project starts behind schedule which in turn means there's constant needling to go faster. Lots of "we think this should have gotten done faster" from managers who don't have enough information to even have that opinion. They clearly have pressure from their boss to "up velocity."
So it feels like I could get laid off in the next few months - hoping the severance is solid. Not too worried but it's inherently unpleasant. I'm gonna make the most of the severance if need be.
Which means they're no longer leaders, even if they retain their position.
i usually advise a double-approach - look for a new gig (i.e. feed the stomach) - but also try to start/join a union and look at other employee empowerment ideas, like allowing H1b holders to freely transfer between employers without the drama, etc.
That’s not going to go over well when people are looking for work in droves and the purpose of these visas is (allegedly) because they can’t find qualified citizens to do the job.
Find a job at another company “doing great” and be the first let go because you’re the new guy?
I learned during the Great Recession that if you have a job then keep the job.
Also, as one of the other commenters posted, don’t take a job making less than what McDonald’s pays just because the company thinks you’re desperate.