Fecal indicator bacteria on indoor NYC floors linked to sidewalk contamination | Hacker News Reader

Fecal indicator bacteria on indoor NYC floors linked to sidewalk contamination

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30 pointsbookofjoe42 comments

I'm rather amused by the offense some seem to be taking to the suggestion that wearing shoes in the house is filthy, especially given the article that this discussion is about.

Yes, it is disgusting. Why is this a question. Better: why are we pretending this is a question?

Much if not most of the world takes their shoes off when entering a house. It's not just the Japanese. It is the practice in Northern/Central/Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Ethiopia, India, etc. Besides, taking your shoes off allows your feet to relax instead of being cooped up inside a small, confined space for all your waking hours.

As well as any American place with snow. Hence mud rooms.

They don't do it to avoid contaminating their with human feces.

Unless one believes the "designated shitting streets" meme to be a reality, In which case, should we settle for that in what purports to be our greatest city? Most of us say "no".

Uhm, I do take off my shoes specifically to avoid contamination with filth and bacteria, which I take may include feces. After all, cats and dogs shit on the street and sometimes it's not picked up.

I'm sorry that your city is so disgusting and low-trust that citizens must modify their clothing options to accommodate your feces-ridden sidewalks.

It sounds like your city might wanna tackle this issue.

"Modify clothing options"? Do you truly believe you can make the outdoors clean by increased regulatory action? That you can stop living beings from dying and defecating outside by some sort of decree? Are you somehow going to prevent all drunken teenagers from spitting on the sidewalk?

My home's floor is clean enough that you can sit on it, and I often do. Do you consider the sidewalks in your city clean enough to sit on them?

It's interesting that this is such an emotional topic for many people.

I have a photo taken in Manhattan, on a block where there were a lot of people walking their dogs.

The sunlight is reflecting off the sidewalk, and a woman is picking up her dog's shit. The place where she has picked up the shit has a spot remaining, and you can see, all over the sidewalk, similar spots. Not just a few, I mean all over the sidewalk.

As I took the photo, I wondered, how much of that shit is being tracked into everyone's homes?

I’ll admit I was raised wearing my shoes indoors and still do it. I live in the suburbs and haven’t really ever needed to use public transportation on a long term basis. I guess big cities are different. I go walks everyday and track who knows what in. I also:

- touch gas station pump handles

- press elevator buttons - touch door handles

- use (shared) shopping carts at the grocery store

- pick up stray papers blowing through the yard

- touch plants and trees in the yard or while walking

- pet my dog, even if he’s been outside unattended in the yard

Based on some of the comments, I’m wondering if the above revelations will put some people into shock. Granted, during Covid I was much more careful. Small anecdote: my wife is almost a germaphobe while I’m obviously not. She gets sick much much more often. I suppose my immune system is stronger because it’s been exposed to countless small amounts of all kinds of things, just like everyone was for millennia. In my opinion modern society wants everything just a little too sterile. BUT, if I lived in a city of poo-covered streets maybe things would look differently.

Don’t wear outdoor shoes inside the house.

Not meaning this as a flippant comment, but other than the obvious “eww” factor, what are the consequences of having more FIC in one’s house due to wearing outside shoes indoors?

I had the same question. The strains of bacteria in question are nearly universal and only specific serotypes cause disease; it's unclear that the E. coli you track around on the bottom of your shoes is any more dangerous that the E. coli you'll encounter by touching a tree or a doorknob.

This reminds me of the stories I used to see regularly about how dirty your (one's) pillow is. I'm sure it's true, but having lived my whole life with an apparently dirty pillow, it doesn't strike me as something I need to change right away.

Also, I assume my floor is dirty, it's why I throw out food if I drop it (mostly) and wash my hands after I do push-ups or whatever has me touching it. That strikes me as more realistic than trying to keep a sterile floor

“Sterile” doesn’t have to be the bar. I’m willing to bet mopping your floor (with a disinfecting agent) once a week still goes a long way compared to monthly/yearly/never.

I have to beleive this isn't unique to NYC, unless there's some other correlation I'm not getting.

Just good practice not to walk around inside your own home with shoes that walked on who-did-who-knows-what outside your home.

Genuinely, I wonder if there is a subway system in the world more filthy. In NYC I've seen the back of cars and elevators that were treated as literal toilets.. no where else in my travels.

Even poo city San Francisco keeps BART relatively clean in my experience.

Presumably the contamination is dog or pigeon shit. But I would love to find out how many places in the survey had a high percentage from some dude who just liked to head into ritzy buildings to drop a deuce on the floor

This is why I advocate not just tinfoil hats but tinfoil shoes that you change every time you leave the home.

Never understood how people could walk inside their own homes with their outdoor shoes on. Seriously one of the most bizarre things ever.

Same, I moved to US about a decade ago and this is pretty much the most major cultural shock I still seem to experience. Like I simply cannot fathom how people just walk around their house with shoes, then jump onto their beds/couches, how do you feel confident there is no contamination from outside to your bed or couch?

Is there any actual evidence that contamination travels to any meaningful degree? Hasn’t seemed to have any impact that I know of.

Or that it has any meaningful impact?

I suppose this is part of the "culture shock" I'm talking about. It is outside, it's literally the unwashed sidewalk we're talking about. What other "meaningful impact" does one need to be grossed out by this?

Would you feel comfortable lying down on a sidewalk and sleeping there, in a major city? Well, that's how I feel like when my friends walk around their houses with shoes, socks then jump on their couch. Their feet touches the couch which, to me, means couch == sidewalk. It's gross.

EDIT: Now, to be fair, hygiene is all about culture. I fully admit that. E.g. I seem to have no problem eating things off of a table in restaurants which is likely equally, if not more, unhygienic. But it doesn't bother me. Walking in my home with shoes on completely devastate me. Maybe it's a form of OCD, I don't know.

Taking shoes off is way way way more common in the frozen north parts where you’re guaranteed to track ice and mush in.

Agree am from north and have friends from south who will visit me in the west and waltz right in with shoes on even on nice rugs like Rick James at Eddie Murphys pad.

I live in Boston, MA, this still happens. People wear shoes at home. Not everyone, but seems like a lot of people, perhaps majority, or maybe close to it. Boston is not exactly in the frozen north parts, but it is very much in the north and it's frozen a couple months a year.

Question is if its really that bad, the contamination. If you would have the ability to zoom into your hands at at any time you would see colonies of various bacteria all over your hands. Is it really harming you? I agree though that a certain level of hiegene must be present.

And yet we demand people keep them on during flights, because feet are even more disgusting.

Do we? Besides takeoff and landing, it is pretty common to take off shoes during flights.

I wonder if it's country-dependent too.

Some people's feet are disgusting. They should keep their shoes on during flights and, with a little self-awareness, should know by now whether they have odor issues (which, btw, can be dealt with). Besides, most people wear socks during flights which means you don't typically encounter anyone's feet.

And yet, flip flops and sandals pass the test? Small issue with coherence.

And we demand that they take their shoes off at the security checkpoint. Really disgusting.

It was quite surprising to see it happening en masse in Europe. I only knew about Japan.

My family did it for years and some visitors had very extreme opinions about it, even though we never asked them to take their shoes off. Some got offended by me putting slippers.

Oh my father-in-law was a fiery "it's my house so I wear shoes inside".

So when I moved in with my then-girlfriend-now-wife, we made a rule... "it's our house so you take off your shoes".

We did warn him ahead of the rule, and told him, bring slippers if you don't want on your socks...

I have friends who thinks it is absolutely discussing to walk with shoes off inside anyone's home... they only walk around their home with shoes on. They have a dog, so a clean floor isn't even possible. So I guess it makes sense. They even sleep with their shoes or slippers next to the bed and quite literally never touch the floor with their skin.

In most shoes-free houses I know we also rarely touch the floor, we have indoor slippers.

In Japan it's common to rinse dog feet after getting back from a walk, if the dog doesn't have his own shoes.

> They even sleep with their shoes or slippers next to the bed and quite literally never touch the floor with their skin.

...huh. So that actually sounds internally consistent and weirdly sanitary. Like... Sure, the floor is dirty, but if you're permanently separated from the floor I guess that might be fine?

I know right! When they explained that to me I felt like I was doing life wrong. I still make them take off their shoes when they come over though.

Japanese I have met go as far as having an extra pair of slippers for walking into their toilet.

IMHO it is a good idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan#Toilet_slippe...

Even cheap ($40) hotels provide you with a disposable pair of bathroom slippers.

Nyc’er here. If you wear shoes in your house/apt in this city, I’m sorry but you’re disgusting.

On an average day, you’re standing on the subway, at work, on the sidewalk, and in public bathrooms.

You’re tracking all types of feces, urine, and who knows what else (every day is trash day).

No, just no.

How much of that are you tracking in? Tracking it in implies that it comes off your shoes wherever you walk. But that also goes for everywhere you walk. So in reality you are only tracking in whatever disgusting stuff was within the last X steps of your house. If you walk on the sidewalk, and if it rains periodically, it gets constantly cleaned. Walking on grass, well you are walking on something that will really pull gunk off your shoes, and it is has enough bio-stuff there that breaks everything down.

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