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Comment by grujicd | Hacker News Reader

So this feature seems to be target to family sharing PCs? I really hate Steam's family sharing. It seemed a great idea. I could purchase some games for kids on my account and they could play on their separate PC. I fully expected that I can't run same game on two PCs if I purchased just a single license. What I totally didn't expect was that if kid is playing any single game from my library, I can't play anything else on my PC! Two entirely different games, with two full paid licenses can't be played at the same time.

This policy moved Steam from "oh it's so convenient" to "ugh, I won't purchase anything ever again on the Steam". Yes, I could create a new account but then I'm locked out form all the games I already purchased.

Now if I'm buying a game the first thing I'm looking is if there's is a non-Steam version.

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>policy moved Steam from "oh it's so convenient" to "ugh, I won't purchase anything ever again on the Steam"

Ha. Even without family sharing Steam is still the best platform for game purchases. Family sharing not being what you want hardly invalidates the rest of the platform.

I always saw family sharing as something for a family that shares a single PC, letting the family only have to purchase one copy of the game for the household.

It's an irritating policy because it illuminates the fact that you don't actually own the games. If you actually owned two games you could play them on two separate systems, while being logged out of steam.

It's pretty obvious whenever you purchase a game and you have to accept the steam "subscriber" agreement.

FWIW, I think steam is the lesser of many weevils so I deal with it.

Games on CD allowed you to play on LAN with 1 CD for 3-4 players. It was actually a documented feature.

How is this better than it was?

I wont argue it is better, but you can do this with some games on steam using offline mode if the game supports other methods of multi-player outside of steam.

I need neither a CD drive nor to store tons of plastic slabs with easily-scratching discs inside, nor to swap discs just to play a different game. Nor to go downtown to buy new ones.

It's a lot better in many ways, even if not specifically in sharing.

But playing with my brother now costs me double.

This seems like a "me too" comment, but I agree on family sharing being fairly poor for most (IMO) families. I still love steam, but I was really excited to share my library of 300 games with my son who just got a steam deck (like I could easily do if I had hard-copies), but no. We have to take turns playing (different games). Now we need to be creative whose account owns which game when making purchase.

Also kind of frustrated any time I see someone complain about this, there is a horde of people saying "you're wrong and greedy, steam is awesome".

I realize doing this the "right" way might be impractical from a licensing standpoint (or people cheating the system). It still pales in comparison to hard-copies though in this regard.

> I really hate Steam's family sharing.

This is something that Apple gets really right, and that Valve and Microsoft (I don't have experience with Sony or Nintendo family ecosystems) get really wrong.

I can't even buy multiple copies of a co-op game on the family Steam account that the family can use to play together.

Doesn't Apple's family sharing have a big problem with IAPs not being shared? So maybe you get the base game (but maybe not if it's an IAP on a free title) but not the expansions?

The consoles all have a pretty similar system at this point. You get a master console where it can play everything offline/online and any user account can access anything the account set the console as master owns and then you can log into another console and use everything the account owns while online. There might be minor differences among platforms but that's the jist of it. It's kinda bad for Nintendo Switch with the second system being a handheld though. Still better than Steam's. In the good ol' days Sony allowed you to have 5 PS3s and there was no difference but it got abused so they cut it to two.

> Doesn't Apple's family sharing have a big problem with IAPs not being shared?

It's up to the developer as of iOS 14: https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/4/22154178/apple-family-sha...

> The consoles all have a pretty similar system at this point.

Not on Xbox, which is my primary gaming device. Here's how the "home console" feature works today:

> "Xbox home console is an existing feature that allows you to share games and content with other people who sign in to your home console with their profile. However, it’s limited to that device, so friends and family must sign in to the console you identify as your home Xbox to access those benefits."

On the bright side, something new called "Xbox Game Pass Friends & Family" is coming. It provides an Apple-like experience for games on Game Pass, which is a good start:

> "When you share with Friends & Family, the primary account holder and up to four additional members each get their own unique access to all Xbox Game Pass Ultimate games, content, and benefits, regardless of what device they play on. All the people you invite can play at the same time, even the same game."

https://support.xbox.com/en-US/help/subscriptions-billing/ma...

Isn't Xbox home console exactly what I described as a master console? That console can play whatever offline and other users can use that content linked to that account. Then you can login into that account on a friend's console or a second console and use that accounts games while online? So you can have two games from one account being played simultaneously online which is not doable on Steam.

> Then you can login into that account on a friend's console or a second console and use that accounts games while online?

As the FAQ I quoted above appears to confirm, you can share games with other profiles, but only on the single device blessed as the "home console".

Of course, you can always pass physical discs around. IIRC, for digital purchases there's a convoluted way to use a single purchase with multiple profiles on multiple devices, but not at the same time. In other words, co-op requires multiple copies of a game. If purchased digitally, they must be bought using separate profiles since one profile can't buy a game twice.

It's quite possible I'm wrong about some facet(s) of this. Hopefully "Xbox Game Pass Friends & Family" fixes this, but if it only fixes the problem for Game Pass games I'm not sure how much value it'll have for me.

Yes, but you can log into another console with the same account and play the titles you own so long as you're online and logged in. So you can play a game you bought on your account while someone else plays a game bought on your account on the home console. So two consoles simultaneously.

What some people do is they set their friend's Xbox as their home console and their friend sets their Xbox as their home console and then they both just stay logged in and online on their respective consoles. This lets them play all their friend's games but they can still play their own.

I think if you try this for a co-op scenario you'll find that it will fail, but it's possible it just failed for everything we tried. In any case, setting someone else's device to be our home console is a non-starter for me. Thanks for digging in with me on this, though!

> I can't even buy multiple copies of a co-op game on the family Steam account that the family can use to play together.

If you're using Steam Big Picture, you can leave multiple accounts logged in to every device and buy games on them; I did this when I ran fighting game tournaments during COVID--accounts named [channel]1, [channel]2, and so on. (Why you can't do this with the desktop UI is certainly a wart, though.)

Given this, rearchitecting their infrastructure (which pretty universally considers a single account a single active user) for a fairly niche case is probably low on the list.

> If you're using Steam Big Picture, you can leave multiple accounts logged in to every device and buy games on them…

I'm not sure I understand. Is your idea that instead of per-person accounts, you would create new accounts for subsequent copies, and then the family would work out who logs in as what user?

> Given this, rearchitecting their infrastructure (which pretty universally considers a single account a single active user) for a fairly niche case is probably low on the list.

Families wanting to play co-op games together is a niche?

Im not saying that you’re wrong for wanting to be able to buy multiple copies but I’m curious as to what you’re reasoning is for not just having separate accounts for the people in your family.

Family members do have separate accounts, and I'd very much like to keep it that way. That is, I don't want to buy a copy for Billy's account and then another for Suzy's account — I want to buy, say, one additional copy (license, really) for the family library so that anybody can co-op with each other.

> I'm not sure I understand. Is your idea that instead of per-person accounts, you would create new accounts for subsequent copies, and then the family would work out who logs in as what user?

Yep - that is the intended behavior at present, near as I can tell. Swap accounts as necessary.

> Families wanting to play co-op games together is a niche?

No, but hotdesking and a licensing service is something I don't think I've ever heard friends with kids ask for. (Steam has a licensed/hotdesked model for businesses, where that is a more common thing.)

> Swap accounts as necessary.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't want to buy a copy for every family member when we'll never use more than 2 simultaneously.

> No, but hotdesking and a licensing service…

Steam Family Library Sharing already checks that there's an available license, and that it's not currently in use. I just want the ability to buy multiple licenses.

Or better yet, I'd prefer that Valve and other game app stores do what Apple does, and allow users within families to play whatever's "on the shelf", separately or together.

Xbox game pass is actually pretty good about this. You can play Xbox games on your pc on your main account and someone else can play the same game on an Xbox. I can play a game on Xbox cloud gaming on my steam deck while someone plays the same game on my Xbox. This is fantastic with multiplayer games. I haven’t tried with games that aren’t part of the subscription library but it would slightly surprise me if that didn’t work the same.

No it seems to target having the game on your PC then wanting to install it on your Steam Deck.

I can play if I'm in offline mode without an issue when my son plays on his computer. Have you tried that?

Yeah this is what you do - "restart in offline mode". I have my kids do this and we can all play whenever.

That only helps in the scenario somebody wants to play offline. If one person wants to play CoD: Black Ops online while the other plays Halo MCC online you can't.

Nah this is a steam offline mode, which is independent from your internet connection and the games ability to use the internet.

make you kid another account? i family share with my friends just fine

reading you post again. i think you use family sharing wrong.

> Yes, I could create a new account but then I'm locked out form all the games

family sharing needs multiple account

Why not just disable Family Share instead?

If you grant someone Family Sharing access, and then revoke it, you can't grant it again for 90 days. This is presumably to prevent it from becoming Friend Sharing.

The issue is without family sharing, you can't share games. But with it enabled if you both own a certain game, it gets confused and only 1 of you can play it at a time.

Specifically, if I own game X and you own game Y, then with sharing I can play your Y while you play my X at the same time.

But if I buy game Y, and play it, steam will then prevent you from playing my game X at the same time.

Wait, this scenario is real and they haven’t fixed it yet?

Well, grujicd considers Steam Family Share to be so broken that he no longer wants to buy games on Steam. That’s fair. What doesn’t make any sense is why he just doesn’t disable it if he hates it so much?

I guess I hate it because I believed marketing term "family sharing" and did not realize it's "family sharing with caveats and significant limitations". With that incorrect belief I bought a number of games for both kids and myself before I realized full impact of these limitations.

What's worse, even with hindsight I'm not sure how a parent should organize 2-3 accounts to allow all what "family sharing" implies. And consider that kid now plays some Mario game but in a year or two would play Wolfenstein, so it's not easy to separate by "my" and "their" games.

Family share doesn’t work for your family though, and it makes you miserable. Why extend the torture?

This happens for any game that requires you to be online. So I'll note that it shouldn't be a problem if it's a single player game.

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