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Comment by senectus1 | Hacker News Reader

I still don't get this meditation thing.

I get two big things out of it.

One is practice in managing thoughts and feelings. If you just sit and breathe, you'll begin to notice how much the mind wanders, how much thoughts randomly arise and pinball around your head. Meditation gives you a lot of practice in not getting caught up in that.

The other is what I think of as self-instrumentation. As with any sort of performance tuning or debugging, the foundation is paying attention to what's actually going on. Meditation has greatly increased my ability to introspect, which helps me solve a lot of things that in the past were mysteries to me.

Is there any theory of why meditation is beneficial? I guess most meditation could be described as "minimizing verbal thoughts". Why is minimizing thoughts better than maximizing them for instance?

Is there any theory of how meditation offers evolutionary benefits?

Meditation isn't really about minimizing thoughts. You can't stop thoughts from arising, its just something that your brain does. Meditation is more about training yourself to not attach to those thoughts, to let them go. And that has huge benefits - a lot of the stress and suffering in life we experience in life is due to becoming attached to our thoughts.

The book Mindfulness in Plain English is a great introduction to mediation if you are curious.

When you say to no attach to those thoughts, do you mean all of them? Cause I've felt detached with what's going on in my mind several times before, and they've been as unproductive as when I'm overwhelmed with thoughts, even if it is more peaceful.

There is a lot of nuance to this and if you are really curious, you should check out Mindfulness in Plain English... you can find it free online.

But, a quick, short answer - meditation is like going to the gym for your brain. In meditation, you practice detaching from thoughts. A practical example: Let's say you have a rocky relationship with your boss or a colleague. Maybe they say something you perceive as a slight while grabbing a coffee in the morning. Instead of fixating on it all day and letting it disturb your work, you just let it go. Not attaching to our thoughts doesn't mean we can't focus very hard on things - in fact, letting your negative thoughts go is what is going to allow you to focus hard on your work the rest of the day!

(Also, there are many types of meditation, this is just one form of meditation... again, lots of nuance here that is hard to get across in this format.)

In my view detachment is different than the nonattachment you get from sustained meditation practice. Detachment often comes from trauma, illness, or unhealthily extreme circumstance (e.g., being tired or drunk or high). Nonattachment is about behavioral freedom: instead of being compelled by thoughts that trigger particularly urgent feelings, you get to decide which threads to pursue.

That said, reading about meditation is never going to get you a full understanding of it, any more than reading cookbooks will give you an understanding of a cuisine you've never eaten.

> reading about meditation is never going to get you a full understanding

Right. And do you really even need a whole book to explain how to do meditation?

Can it not be explained in one paragraph?

Is it even as complicated as a recipe in a cookbook with many steps and ingredients?

How many steps and subtasks and ingredients are there to do meditation?

Now I would be interested in seeing a book that explains some rational as to why a given meditation technique does some good to you. I believe it does, but don't know why. Therefore could it be like placebo?

I would argue that, yes, you do in fact need either a book or a teacher. Meditation practices and traditions didn't spontaneously develop in a vacuum, they were created in the context of spiritual traditions such as Buddhism. Non-attachment and no-self are very difficult concepts, but they are the aim of meditation! Without a good teacher (or at least, a good book), meditation can lead to some dark places.

Edit: Of course you are correct that the actual technique is very simple and can be explained in a few sentences. But there is much more to it than that - how do you process the results? That's what you need a book/teacher/help for.

You sound like somebody who has not spent a lot of time meditating. Maybe try it before opining further?

You need many books to explain how to do meditation, because people vary widely and it's a complex set of skills with subtle goals. However, reading a thousand books is not sufficient to understand it, any more than reading all the books about bicycles can make you able to ride a bike.

I could make you some theories if you wanted them. How would you find that beneficial?

I honestly think a 30 minute walk 2x/day with nothing besides maybe your dog will get you where you need to go.

that's kind of exactly what meditation is. Not having a phone/tv/screen/book/human taking your attention.

And somehow pedestrian scenery doesn't take one's attention?

This is exactly my experience as well, but there is a problem though. Most of people in the world just don't have a luxury I have - take a walk with my dog in the woods any moment I want. Most of people in the world don't have a luxury to switch environments in the way I have. Meditation is useful for people living in noisy (in all possible ways) environments they can't escape.

I think you are confusing meditation with relaxation.

It's a practice that's best understood by doing with zero expectation.

When we start, I think the name "meditation" is misleading. It's what we have left when we feel overwhelmed. Sit and breathe. It's interesting to try to do something so simple, so complicated.

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