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And otherwise insightful comment making the absolutely bizarre connection between long employment notice periods and riots and mass shootings.

More social security means more stable and less violent society, so it is an exaggeration but it is not wrong.

Are we sure it isn't just tied to the number of guns in circulation that mentally unwell people have access to?

Is that not related in a roundabout way?

Part of the reason the US has dismal social security is the same "dog eat dog" hyper individualistic mentality that is also present in people thinking it's their sacred right to own assault rifles and shit.

At least that's my impression from the outside. I never really went to the US to taste it first hand.

stable less violent right up until the revolution ..

I think for many of us outside the US, your culture of dog eat dog and I owe nothing to nobody except my sacred duty to get rich is the root of your social problems.

It's not American culture, it's that capitalist culture gets traction here first. So... brace yourselves. Maybe with kevlar.

More eloquently: https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/07/25/how-the-west-was-won/

Let me turn that around and suggest that when America finally embrace universal culture, it will understand that arming every random person with an assault rifle with extended magazine is a very, very bad idea.

I agree, but your response has little to do with my comment.

America has its fair share of problems. However, after having lived in several European countries for the better part of a decade, let us not delude ourselves to the myriad of problems, albeit different, that euro countries have.

And they're not better problems either, they're just different.

Wonderful bit of whataboutism! Now please respond to the argument.

lol i wonder where this culture of 'you must respond to my internet comment on my own terms' comes from? 'now please' explain this

Who knows. He's most likely salty that I poured cold reality on his fetishization of Europe. This happened to me a lot when I came back to America as there's a certain group of people who really do think Europe is better than America when the reality on the ground is far from it.

Last I heard, France also had a lot of riots in spite of being a staunchly socialist society.

I'm an American living in France. I get panicked messages from family all the time about this. It's incredible how much American media overstated the gravity of protests in France. Protests happen every weekend. Always registered with the police. But you often have "spoilers" who are just kids looking to break things. In rare cases, it's actually real protesters. And even then, the scope of the "rioting" is limited to one or two blocks maximum.

All the storefronts have insurance so any visible damage is quickly repaired.

I have never seen a riot in Paris and I've been here since 2020. Nor does it interfere with the lives of anyone I know here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_protests - French people are angry as well and they called themselves "yellow vests", both literally and figuratively, to get noticed. By people like you who don't seem notice.

It’s probably at the root of some of the US’s social problems, but perhaps a bigger factor in the US having loads of mass shootings is ready availability of guns suited to doing mass shootings with.

There have been mass shootings in many European countries, and in most cases they’ve led to heavy crackdowns on the availability of appropriate weapons, after which the mass shootings stop.

For what it's worth, one of the main contributing factors to terroristic activity is lack of economic prospects. Similar enough that it rings true to me. Also, consider that pre-Columbine, the cultural template for mass shootings was someone disgruntled about their workplace.

Hence the US phrase “going postal”.

Correlation is not causation. At least I'd ask you to entertain the thought that the same factors that make a specific individual be without economic prospects also are factors that turn him violent.

Sure, third-variable problem is absolutely appropriate. But I'm not claiming causation here, just saying that drawing the connection is far from absurd.

This is a massive derail, but mass shootings are an almost uniquely American phenomenon, and they are a policy choice - delivered by a uniquely dysfunctional politics that prizes ideology over actual outcomes. The outcome being protected here is "employers may not fire employees at zero notice", with the symmetry that this also applies to the employee.

> riots

Has this person ever been to France or Greece?

> mass shootings

In foreign countries without second amendment rights criminals just ram trucks into people instead. Since no guns are involved, these don't get reported as "mass shootings", not that it would bring any comfort to the victims and their families.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_van_attack

The number of those is tiny compared to the number of mass shootings in America.

> > How is this legal, in the famously pro-labor EU?

> Because it is literally the law.

Ha, fair enough. I believe OP meant to ask and should have asked something along the lines of: "How is this the law in the famously pro-labor EU?"

If you have a longer notice period for the employers, it's only fair to have the same for the employees too. After all, if your company has to search for a replacement, and the prospective candidates are currently employed with the same notice period, they have to start looking as soon as you hand in your notice...

> (What happens if you ignore it?)

In the EU country I live in employees have 30 days of notice and the employee has to pay the employer for each missing day of required notice. Employees generally don't pay anything anyway, as they mature several additional "bonuses" (13th and 14th month, severance pay) during their employment and the missing notice payment can be detracted from those.

Employment contracts will prevent mass shootings?

Employment does

Unemployment rates:

USA: 3.4% Spain: 13.1% Greece: 11.6% Italy: 7.8% Cypus: 7.7% [...] Malta: 3.2% Germany: 2.9% Poland: 2.9% Czechia: 2.3%

That'll be some gymnastics.

If you are unemployed in most EU countries you are not at risk of dying because you can't afford healthcare, food and shelter. Less desperation for the unemployed is better for society.

Employment security also helps mental health, you don't need to live in pure anxiety and fear that someone else might take your job next week.

Eh, to be fair to his argument, 'unemployment' is just a survey measuring who is actively looking for new employment but can't find it. Most developed countries have a higher rate of prime-age (25-60) employment than the US. I like that metric better, you're just looking nationally at what % of adults are employed overall

Those are the official numbers after the US changed the way it counts unemployment so as to appear better.

If you go back to the way unemployment was counted before President G. W. Bush, you end up with higher rates.

The current U-6 unemployment rate in the U.S. is 6.6%. That adds back in discouraged workers, workers on long-term unemployment, and workers on part-time employment because of the economy.

European governments commit massive fraud with how they count their unemployment numbers as well, so comparisons are difficult.

USA unemployment is 7,4% [1]. Spain, Greece, Italy's unemployment is highly seasonal - in summer it drops to almost 0%, meaning the majority of the population has some (untaxed) income to keep them afloat through the entire year.

[1] https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_u_6_unemployment_rate_unad...

> USA unemployment is 7,4%

The not commonly used U-6 is, yeah, but even your link mentions that U-3 is commonly used, and why would you compare different unemployment rates between countries? Here [1] is Destatis from December 2022 with data for all EU countries and the US for comparison.

> Spain, Greece, Italy's unemployment is highly seasonal - in summer it drops to almost 0%

In June 2022, Spain had 12.6% (2021: 15.3%), Greece had 12.3% (15.0%) and Italy 8.1% (9.4%), see [2] from Eurostat.

Is this going to turn into a session of frantic googling to find numbers that support your claim that you based upon feelings and prejudices instead of facts?

[1] https://www.destatis.de/Europa/EN/Topic/Population-Labour-So...

[2] https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/14675433/3-0...

It doesn't really matter either way. Unemployed people in most EU countries do have access to healthcare, benefits that keep them from starving, etc.

Not a paradise, but not a hellhole.

Certainly, though that typically depends on where you live, and as a general rule, social security gets better the further north you go, and that's also where unemployment is low, while the situation looks tougher in Spain, Italy or Greece.

But that's besides the point, the claim was that employment has something to do with it, not the extent of the welfare state.

Yes, that tends to be true.

On the other hand, a lot of things influence employment beyond labor protection as well.

Yes. You have less to lose.

Mass shootings happen because people get to the extreme point of disconnection where they just say "burn it all, I'm going out in a blaze..." These aren't people that feel connected to anything (coworkers, family, schoolmates, teams).

Even if other things are lacking, employment can bring connection.

In general Europe tends to provide a stronger social net. Not just labor laws but what happens when you are out of job, have disability, etc. Some might argue that the poor are less poor and the rich are less rich (less disparity) which overall contributes to a better social climate and better mental health.

Would you rather be sick and poor in the US or in a more socialist country? Of course there's nothing like being wealthy in the US but if you fall behind in the US, there's definitely less support for you and might make people more.. desperate. US also has the highest incarcerated rate in the western world for a reason.

Those are all opinions and I have nothing to quote, but it's hard to argue that there is a strong difference in how societies are structured and what support they provide to their citizens to live a better life

Better work life balance as well may I add. It isn't appreciated that you're working long hours. Clock strikes 6 and day is over.

"If something isn't done within working hours, either it wasn't meant to be and was underestimated or you're not working effectively" sort of.

> Of course there's nothing like being wealthy in the US

This is one of the interesting aspects of inequality that I've found. Do the rich in the US actually seem fabulously happy to you? Like does Elon Musk demanding that Twitter engineers add a 1000 multiplier to his popularity score seem like the actions of a happy man?

I'm sure they are happier than the poor, but it may be that massive inequality in societies actually has negative effects on those at the top as well. This is actually what Robert Sapolsky found in his studies of primate societies, and while humans might not just be any other primate society, we are that as well.

> Like does Elon Musk demanding that Twitter engineers add a 1000 multiplier to his popularity score seem like the actions of a happy man?

Not at all, but my suspicion is that you may have causality backwards there.

I suspect that Musk is driven to do what he does by his various personality issues, rather than his personality issues being caused by his wealth.

I can understand not being satisfied with mere early retirement after PayPal, but simultaneously gambling on Tesla and SpaceX is extremely unusual, and very little about Hyperloop/TBC, Neuralink, and the purchase of Twitter really makes much sense except as a desire to be seen as a modern Da Vinci.

I've heard him described as narcissistic; I'm not qualified to say if he is that clinically or merely to the extent of an actor or YouTuber, but he certainly doesn't seem like he'll ever really feel secure in his connection to others.

I'm still not sure what to make of his clear humility about the success prospects for each new rocket's first launch, vs. the apparent hubris in every other field.

It was a fairly quick example, mostly because he was at the top of the heap of wealth for at least a bit in the last couple years; I haven't spent much time examining the psychology of Musk beyond what leaks through in his actions (which is no small amount). But it does appear that some positive feedback mechanisms have a hold of him, and I don't think that's something that more wealth will help.

Social security nets probably do.

People are arguing this in the comments, but: no, obviously not, mass shootings are not directly anything to do with employment, but they are a policy choice which Europeans and Americans cannot understand each other over.

half the mass shootings are done by young/students?

South europe countries have ~ 50% youth unemployment and very little prospects however there's no mass shootings?

No mass shootings, but do look up knife crime and sexual assault statistics.

Different implements, same outcomes unfortunately.

And youth unemployment is one of the problems that Europe has that America doesn't have nearly as badly.

> No mass shootings, but do look up knife crime and sexual assault statistics.

You can be certain that has nothing to do with unemployment.

Last time I looked US gun+knife crime had far more victims than European knife crime. Even in Glasgow, former knife crime capital of Europe, which had a very successful violence reduction project.

https://crookedtimber.org/2012/07/20/america-is-a-violent-co... : "the most striking features of the data are (1) how much more violent the U.S. is than other OECD countries (except possibly Estonia and Mexico, not shown here), and (2) the degree of change—and recently, decline—there has been in the U.S. time series considered by itself."

US crime is high, but falling from its very high peak, more or less independently of who's President.

1. There are layoffs in EU but they are not click worthy as those in Silicon Valley.

https://sifted.eu/articles/startup-tech-company-layoffs-2023...

At least in Sweden (and I believe Germany is similar) there are no layoffs as you see in the US. In Sweden an employer might extend an offer to buy you out of your employment contract, which you can deny and continue to be employed. If they want to do layoffs they will have to follow LAS which has a few provisions on how it should be done, including a LIFO order for who gets shafted, and any positions considered "redundant" not being able to be hired at all for a few months (I believe it's 6 months but I might be wrong).

The US also has provisions on layoffs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/10/warn-act-what-every-us-worke...