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Comment by post_break | Hacker News Reader

My Honda accord was $35,000. If the front is damaged just the headlights are $900 a piece. Ignoring structural issues with the unibody, the damage multiplier for new cars isn't the frame, but everything else. Headlights, fog, lights, sensors for adaptive cruise, calibrating the new sensor, bumper, paint, etc.

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On a BMW 760i (V12) the driver’s side LED/laserlight headlight lens was badly fogged. These are sealed units and not repairable. Cost to replace? $9,600. It was covered under factory warranty but… whoa.

That's just BMW cheating customers. Or you might argue that they are cheating insurance companies, since most crunched headlights are replaced under insurance.

Yep. You may not be able to get it to Brand New Out of the box OEM shine but I bet there are a dozen acetone/sandpaper/lacquer/toothpaste/hydrogen peroxide something or anothers that could get you to 99% of new quality for less than $20.

Headlights are considered safety critical. None of the manufacturers will (and should!) allow a certified mechanic to rejuvenate and reseal a headlight unit under factory warranty. A manufacturer will always replace the unit, just to be able to warrant the repair.

You can DIY it of course, but no BMW 760i owner is ever expected to do that.

Under warranty? Sure, let the manufacturer handle it.

Outside of warranty? Don't give a company 10 grand for 74 cents worth of plastic and chrome.

I wouldn’t go that far. Their light output and the steerability of their output is fairly stunning. They can’t be very cheap to make, but not $9k either.

> These are sealed units and not repairable

Not repairable by a minimum effort flat rate tech in the US...

There's probably some guy in Latvia that has a Youtube instructional on how to re-seal it or something. $9600 is a hell of a motive to figure out how to repair it.

It’s insane. One of the stories about Chevrolet—when they were first designing the C5 Corvette—was that they took input from the insurance industry regarding repair costs.

One example of this is the hood. The previous generation had a beautiful clamshell hood that wrapped down around the sides. Opening the hood made the front end almost look like an open-wheel car. But it was expensive to make in one piece, and the entire piece had to be replaced if any part of it was damaged.

The C5 has a more conventional hood, with seams running along between the fenders and the hood panel. Not as pretty, but substantially cheaper to repair.

So, $900 for a headlight? We need to strengthen (or better align) the incentives for carmakers to reduce component costs.

There is a huge incentive misalignment. The customer pays monthly for “insurance” and the moral hazard, the insurance company then pays a repair company, who then pays the OEM for the headlight.

The games all go away when the manufacturer sells the insurance, estimates how safe the driver is with data, and then handles the repairs.

Tesla understands this and sees it as a way to beat the competition on total operating cost for the customer.

I don't understand why more people don't check insurance rates before buying a car.

Insurance rates will eventually be reflected in the way the market prices the car. It would be more efficient if people checked, but the current process is close enough.

Because the difference from model to model is a) not that high when cross-shopping models of the same form factor b) outweighed by demographic correlation factors.

People do cross shop different classes of vehicle, but even within a particular vehicle class, the differences can be easily be more than enough to be an important factor in purchasing. If you're comparing two vehicles, and one is $1000 cheaper to purchase, but costs 20% more on insurance... it likely isn't cheaper by the time your loan is paid off.

Tesla wants more to insure my Model 3 than USAA does, and that’s with lower coverage limits. Perfect safety score.

That’s without getting into how much better USAA’s service is compared to Tesla.

And if you have other non-Tesla cars you probably will benefit from having them on the same policy.

Must I explain why people who serve in the US military are much better drivers on average? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess in addition to your perfect driving score, your Tesla is clean as well. I bet you probably agree with a statement like “there is no such thing as an accident”.

Enjoy your cheap car insurance. :)

Do we though? What percentage of cars are ever in an accident? If the choice is between better functioning while working versus lower repair costs, it's not obvious why we would prioritize lower repair costs. People on here always have this idea that repair must be prioritized above all without considering the tradeoffs.

This was Saturn’s big value proposition: GM used plastic for external body panels as they were more resilient to light damage and were pre-finished for cheaper replacement.

Expensive insurance will also kill cars, so insurance companies are definitely consulted stakeholders in vehicle manufacturing.

Tesla sells insurance, so has a direct incentive to make its cars easier and faster to repair. Previously Tesla is notorious for how long it takes to get parts, but that is improving, partly because of the insurance incentive.

Elon Musk has mentioned one reason Tesla started doing insurance was to get more insight into repair costs and processes to help improve both vehicle design and the repair experience.

The first-gen Dodge Viper was notoriously expensive to repair for the same reason: the clamshell hood.

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