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As a child I was diagnosed with a slurry of ADHD/ODD/ADD/OCD/many more.

I came to your exact same conclusion but with a 15 year difference. I am also quite confident I would be on the spectrum instead with a 5 year difference.

The medication I was put on at age 8 permanently fucked me. I went from teaching my grade 8 buddy algebra while completing his homework for fun (at age 8) to a completely fucked education from grade 5-8 and I cannot even remember grade 4 because I was in and out of hospitals for various new potions.

I have a file from my family doctor at the time, Dr. Karen Lo of London Ontario. Where she stated that as an 8 year old I was manipulating/controlling my mother, teacher, and multiple other adults. That was the basis for the medication.

The reality was that my Mom was so drunk off her ass that she couldn't stand up most of the time. I had to cook my own meals or starve, among other things.

I recall the look of one of my "special" teachers when she asked for ways to cook french fries. I told her to fry it in a pan with a tiny bit of oil. That's how I did it after all, she fucking laughed. Laughed.

You'd think you've heard the worst of it maybe but the reality is far far worse. Worse than being illegally and forcefully injected with drugs even. I would know.

My heart goes out to the victims of this treatment. You certainly don't deserve it.

> London Ontario

Why do so many stories of psychotherapistic fuckery come out of Canada? There's your story here, there's the tragic story of David Reimer, there's the Montreal Experimemts by Donald Ewen Cameron... It's like something has been ideologically and institutionally wrong for a long time. It's like there's no human dignity or sovereignty, but instead people are just objects or problems to be managed. Some horrible Skinnerian-Taylorist worldview.

It might just be a metaphor, but would you treat people this way if you thought they had actual souls?

Wait until you hear about French medical laws on sham/placebo surgery.

Everywhere is super messed up, to one degree or another.

It’s almost like the country pushing MAiD doesn’t have the best track record. Huh.

What is the specific medicine that messed you up as a kid and how?

I will say, autism is super common among trans folk, as is ADHD. There is a high rate of comorbidity between them.

Having said that, I do not believe that it is fair to assume a person who believes themselves trans to be mistaken based purely on a personal hypothetical anecdote.

Isn't it at all possible that having a more detached view of your own brain, and a disconnection from society causes one to be more likely to be aware of the distinction between gender and biological sex.

And therefore be more willing to go through transition, instead of being more concerned with the impact the process has on your social standing, your friendships, your relationships.

I genuinely wonder if the incidence rate of transgenderism amongst autistic folks is actual the real incidence rate in humanity, but the rest of us (I am mostly neurotypical, just ADHD, and cis-hetero) are more likely to repress any transgender thoughts or worries.

> I've definitely noticed a trend of people on the spectrum suffering from mental health problems, self-diagnosing as gender dysphoric and then launching themselves down a one-directional, miserable path that ends in their suicide.

Are you saying that the gender dysphoria self-diagnosis was the only factor in the suicide, and without it the mental health problems and difficulties of being neurodivergent in society wouldn't have been an issue? If not, why is it the important one of the three?

Every problem a person deals with will contribute to stress and influence their choices, but it feels a little weird to list 3 big challenges and then say "and the last one is why they killed themselves".

>Are you saying that the gender dysphoria self-diagnosis was the only factor in the suicide, and without it the mental health problems and difficulties of being neurodivergent in society wouldn't have been an issue?

No, not at all.

I think the real reason that so may Autistic people end up depressed, anxious and suicidal is a mix of social difficulties (leading to isolation), coupled with an inability to recognise our own emotional states (making self-care a lot more difficult).

The real problem in misdiagosis of gender dysphoria amongst Autistics isn't so much the additional stress caused by transitioning (not just medical issues, but things like the discrimination that non-passing trans people experience too) but the fact that it provides a false solution to the problem of our depression/anxiety.

So many young Autistics really, genuinely, believe that the solution to their problem isn't learning the hard way how to achieve a certain level of social success, or ceding some of their independence to people they trust to help manage their physical and emotional needs, but instead hormones and surgery.

And once someone's gone down that path, that's it. No coming back.

It may be reassuring to know that most early and mid-stage trans care interventions are fully reversible, other than surgery and some more powerful forms of HRT. Surgery is pretty late on the road and many people never get surgery. So you don't need to be worried if someone you care about starts seeing a specialist about gender concerns, since at least for quite a few months, nothing serious is going to happen.

For younger people it's often preferred to use fully reversible blockers that don't even nudge someone along the transition path, which further reduces the risk of any kind of long-term regret.

Honestly, that's not hugely reassuring in the context of what I was talking about.

The problem isn't the medical effects but the fact that the certainty a misdiagnosis brings blocks people with mental health issues from actually treating the root of the problem. And this decision, practically speaking, isn't reversible. Once someone on the spectrum decides to go down this path, there's no stopping them.

If you have an Autistic kid and they're asking questions about gender, you should absolutely be worried. Hell, I'd be worried about an Autistic 25 year-old.

Misdiagnosis are common when trying to get treated for almost any medical issue, because humans are not orderly, rational machines with well defined inputs and outputs. Gender issues are perhaps an easier one to look at and go "I'm pretty sure you got it wrong, doc" because you can look at someone and instinctively think "that's a man" or "that's a woman". But whether it's back pain that's actually caused by an incredibly rare knee cancer or a doctor misdiagnosing the cause of an ultimately harmless migraine, you run the risk of this any time you go to a physician. I've personally lost people I care about to misdiagnosis but it's still just a fact that I decide to accept: Physicians may try hard, but they're not perfect.

If a problem isn't severe, that might be a reason to avoid medical intervention so you don't take on that risk. But if you're really struggling to cope or it seems like you might have a serious problem, you should probably see a doctor. If their diagnosis makes you ask more questions, get a second opinion, or a third one!

Similarly, basically any surgery has the risk of complications, and lots of interventions we perform on a regular basis have a small but real risk of harm. It's something that comes with medicine, and overall, people live longer and happier lives because medicine usually works out. I postponed wisdom teeth extraction for years because the first dentist I saw about it put the fear of god into me about the terrifying risks of anesthesia, and ended up regretting it because they had to come out eventually anyway. But if I had been that rare statistic to die from anesthesia, maybe it would've been the right choice? I lean towards no, personally.

As far as blocking people from treating the root of the problem - while this is a real issue, if the secondary problem is seriously lowering someone's quality of life, there's something to be said for stopping the bleeding (so to speak) long enough to start working on everything else that's causing issues. It's a matter of triage - sometimes root causes simply cannot be dealt with fast enough to postpone dealing with everything else. A non-surgical gender intervention like blockers to get someone onto stable footing for a year or two could be a great step in order to refocus on everything else, and maybe at the end of that time they decide they don't need meds or surgery.

What the fuck? I'm autistic and I knew at 15 that something was up with my gender. This is a monstrous opinion.

On the contrary, it's becoming common among doctors to make a 180 on the subject. It was a major scandal in Sweden last year when several who had transitioned went to the news and attacked the doctors for allowing them to go through with it. As a result, transition at a young age seem to have been stopped. Because the science is lacking, it's heavily associated with health issues, you'll need treatment for the rest of your life and you can't go back.

Sweden is a white ethnostate that did forced sterilization of trans people until 2013, so it is unsurprising that it has center-right views on transitioning. I know some trans teens who left Sweden and moved to the US over the medical protocols there.

It's far more important that someone resolve their gender dysphoria than concerns like needing lifelong treatment. Plenty of political detransitioners are still dysphoric, they've just chosen alternative treatment modalities that we know lead to less happiness (which is fine as an individual decision, it's just bad to set public policy based on that).

> For younger people it's often preferred to use fully reversible blockers that don't even nudge someone along the transition path

Blockers are fully reversible in the medical sense only. As in if you stop taking them, the hormones go back to normal levels.

They are NOT reversible in how the general public uses the word. As in carching up with the missed out puberty.

So, no, it isn't fully reversible despite what a lot of people want you to believe.

Once blockers are suspended they will go through puberty. I'm not sure what other definition of "reversible" you think would be possible here, some sort of accelerated catch-up puberty? That would be incredibly traumatic and possibly harmful.

Keep in mind that blockers can be prescribed for reasons other than transgender identity, do you think that should be prohibited too?

Many advocates are essentially saying it moves the age range for puberty to a later range. As in "just delaying it"

And it makes no sense to me to ban the prescribing for what the medicine was actually developed for, too early puberty.

Also, why is it that almost always when I voice my dislike for puberty blockers as a form of trans treatment there is the "counter argument" that I want it blocked for all purposes? Just because I dislike one use of it, doesnt mean I dislike all uses.

The reason "do you want it blocked for all purposes" comes up is because when blockers are being prescribed as part of gender care, the purpose of the blocker is to prevent irreversible potential harm to the child. Your argument is that the blockers themselves somehow inflict irreversible harm - this is possible, to be clear, but as yet I've not seen it proven - and if that were so, it would make sense to always prohibit them unless the advantage seriously outweighs the irreversible harm inflicted by the blockers, no? The blockers are far more reversible by any standard than allowing the trans child to go through a puberty they view as traumatic, because that is irreversible by almost any measure I can think of.

Some people probably are just fully resistant to the idea that blockers shouldn't be used. I think guardrails are appropriate, but it's quite common to see people oppose a given treatment in gender care when it is freely used in other - often quite similar - circumstances and the opposition is ultimately rooted in discomfort with gender care and not based on any unusual or serious proven harms.

In the end a lot of this is between the child, their parents, and their physicians. It doesn't matter much how we feel about it as uninvolved individuals as long as safety processes are being followed and there's appropriate consent.

A good point of comparison for blockers, IMO, would be Spironolactone - frequently prescribed for trans HRT and other forms of gender care, but also used on-label for other purposes. This drug has lots of very inconvenient side effects, people dislike it, and it can in some cases cause serious harm due to the side effects. You could argue that it shouldn't be prescribed for any purposes due to those side effects, but at that point, you have to weigh one harm against another. Physicians have generally decided it's worth it.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write this up. I would love to hear more about you're experiences growing up and especially the dysregulation.

Is there any other things about your life you would be willing to share?

>I would love to hear more about you're experiences growing up and especially the dysregulation.

Dysregulation[1] was Hell on Earth, in the literal sense. Very little in life works the way you think it should, and the reaction to these things constantly going wrong is extremely intense, negative, emotional unable to be controlled in any real sense. You lose the ability to reliably form even basic episodic/autobiographical memories, and with it any sense of the past or future. Entire chunks of your life go missing and you don't know what day it is, where you've been or where you're going. All you know is that you're constantly exhausted, nothing makes sense and everything just feels wrong. You don't know how long you've felt like this, and you don't know how long you'll continue to feel like this. As far as you're aware, past and future suffering will keep going on for eternity. And you will do anything, literally anything, to make it stop.

For me, I was fortunate that my mum took me to a sleep specialist, who recommended getting my adenoids removed and prescribing an extremely specific sleep schedule which I followed to a T (all screens off at 9:00, in bed by 10:00, I don't remember if there was a specific constant time I needed to wake up by but I suspect that was part of it to. As an adult, I now supplement this routine with melatonin). This was enough to get me from a state of complete dysregulation to "garden-variety" depression, which eventually I overcame with the help of a supportive network of friends and parents who (semi-forcefully) steered me down a path where I could succeed.

A hypothetical AussieWog98 might have convinced himself that the cause of the dysregulation was gender dysphoria, cut himself off from the people who really care and spent all his time online with other people just like himself until one day he couldn't take it any more.

I really, genuinely believe that this is what is happening today, at least in the case of some people. For others (especially people who transition later in life), it really can help them be comfortable in their own skin, and this is of course where the trans "debate" gets hairy.

[1] This is not technical language, but is the best and most concise word I can use to decribe it. There may be a more appropriate technical term, or a more scientific description of what is happening (seizures in the amygdala?). Feel free to comment if you have any scientific information or proper terminology, I'd love to read the literature on it.

My fear is not really with the misdiagnosis, but with the lack of the precise support you received being so common. It's hugely common in North America, where I am from, to adopt a "child as asset or liability" mindset that leads to parenting based solely around achieving normative goals, which accumulate with increased intensity around adolescence, and are further bolstered by today's media environment. Ours is a consumer culture, and part of that is that your identity is very product-driven.

In this light, gender comes to the fore not in the sense of being "tempted" after seeing something online, but as a particular mask to wear 24/7, regardless of which one you choose; something which autistic people have long been known to struggle with. It isn't outrageous to conclude that switching masks might be a relief if the assigned one isn't working out; consider that autistic women are historically underdiagnosed, and then flip it around to the context of MTF transition: suddenly, autistic man behavior would "pass" as neurotypical woman behavior. That makes it seem like transitioning is the way to be normal!

Of course, normative masks have consequences for people who lean into their assigned gender, too, creating a context for all kinds of medical interventions: steroids to look big, diet drugs and surgeries to look small, study pills to pass exams, and so on. It's a promise of purification which has gradually targeted younger and younger ages. Gender in this light isn't so unique, it's just a particularly scapegoated expression of the culture.

The parents bear some responsibility because in happily going along with a diagnosis of this sort, they're most likely being all too eager to make their child be a better product on the market. Whatever the intervention was, they can go to bed that evening telling themselves "my kid will be successful now." Which in turn results in prolongment of mental health issues and ad-hoc coping mechnaisms.

You linking depression and exhaustion to this dysregulation state and the cure being sleep related sounds like your describing a really bad case of sleep deprivation. But I also get the sense that it is not that? And somehow related to autism and you can recognize people in that kind of state based on their word choice? Like if they could sleep a lot and go camping in nature with not many people and not many expectations for a month and avoid overstimulation, would a lot of these problems clear then?

I think you're not 100% wrong - it was chronic sleep deprivation.

Where the Autism comes in, though, is that a young person on the spectrum won't know how to recognise internal signs that they need to sleep, possibly won't even understand that they need to sleep (unless they've explicitly read/been told about sleep health/hygeine), and likely have difficulty sleeping as is.

The net result is, where a neurotypical person would just realise the early warning signs and slow down/go to bed earlier, the Autistic person can literally continue to ruin their mental health for a decade or more without ever putting two and two together.

The reason I specifically mentioned the Autism rather than the sleep deprivation is that this failing to meet needs can occur in many aspects of one's life and present itself in weird ways. You might see Autistics socially isolate themselves for years on end, then assume that the reason they're plagued with depression and anxiety is because they're not getting laid.

> Like if they could sleep a lot and go camping in nature with not many people and not many expectations for a month and avoid overstimulation, would a lot of these problems clear then?

Do you have a kid in a situation like this? Getting away from technology would probably be an effective treatment temporarily, but you'd need to follow it up with solid, rigorous information about sleep hygeine and its importance.

Stress can also be a factor in this.

Poor sleep leads to worse stress regulation (also in neurotypical people), and chronic stress leads to difficulties in situational and bodily awareness, which leads to poor sleep hygiene, which reinforces the stress regulation problems, rinse and repeat until your life is in ruins.

I personally don't have a kid or know of one with ASD, but I was putting a bunch of previous info in my head plus what you describe as a potential solution. AFAIK ASD often comes with sensory processing issues, within and without as you described.

So by putting someone in nature, which can be sensorily calming for some, along with the social expectations and such, and nature being known to help people's sleep I would put it all together with what I suggested.

For me it would more be a debugging thing. Like if sleep in nature worked, then that is a hint, if it didn't and an indoor equivalent didn't work, since for some the nature stuff can be anxiety provoking for other reasons, then it's something else, etc.

Can you write a blog article explaining how it works?

Maybe I should. Got some paternity leave coming up, so might have a bit of time to get my thoughts in order...

Another day of spreading misinformation on the internet