Why do you want to touch your Mac screen so badly? | Hacker News Reader

Why do you want to touch your Mac screen so badly?

morrick.me

16 pointsrobenkleene53 comments

But I have a theory as to why the idea of a touchscreen Mac makes me shrug — I’m a longtime Mac user

This is the truth. Someone who hasn’t used a touchscreen laptop extensively can’t really opine on the use of such a device. I’ve spent a number of years with an assortment of windows laptops with touch screens and now I use a macbook. My personal take away is that touch screens are useful as an additional input device on laptops (quick dismissal of dialogs, easy zooming and panning, snappy reshuffling of windows), but this advantage exists more on windows than on the mac because windows laptop trackpads are so inferior. The macbook’s trackpad is almost good enough that I never miss a touch screen, but every once in a while it would be convenient.

But I don’t see apple doing a simple straight macbook with trackpad + touchscreen as add-on feature. It is too obvious. I think it is more likely they would release something like this: https://www.asus.com/laptops/for-home/zenbook/zenbook-17-fol...

idk, I have an ipad pro that's about the same size as the air, so touching isn't exactly some unknown UX pattern, but I still don't want to touch my mac.

I prefer using a mouse since they added support in iPadOS funnily enough. I can sit further away from the tablet instead of being hunched over it in a weird position.

It's probably just because I'm old though.

He said he's a Surface Pro user. He perfectly well also uses touch, and touch on a laptop class device.

I bought a Windows laptop with Touchscreen last time around, I still don't use it 3 years later.

I have a keyboard and a trackpad or mouse, there's no reason I want to bend forward to touch the screen for another input method.

I also still miss my Blackberry keyboard.

The screen on my laptop ends up gross already, presumably from touching the keyboard. Also, opening a MacBook gets finger marks on the screen. I do not want more of that.

The touch screen windows machines at work just causes accidental input and are almost never used for touch input. Accidental presses aren’t uncommon. That said, a desktop with a touch screen is a weird thing.

It depends on your habits and mindset. I use tools to create keyboard shortcuts such as window management, open workspace, etc. That means more preference on keeping my hands on the keyboard area. Therefore I’d rather use my trackpad to navigate for a little inconvenience than bending over to reach the screen. So whether it is convenient once for a while is probably depending on your mindset of how to interact with the device.

I had the Surface Laptop and before I bought it, I thought I would be using the touchscreen often. Turns out, I rarely used the touchscreen and only used it under 1 scenario, reading long form content. Best way I can describe it is that I felt like I was replacing a magazine with the large touchscreen and that worked for me.

I'm no longer interested in owning large touchscreen and definitely couldn't care about my Mac having that capability. I don't think it's worth the price premium over non-touch.

> Not a touchscreen Mac, but a Surface-like 2‑in‑1 device running Mac OS with an added ‘tablet mode’ that would adjust Mac OS’s UI to be operated by touch when you’re running Mac-only apps

THAT'S A TOUCHSCREEN MAC THOUGH

Make it a 2fer. In laptop mode, it runs macOS. In tablet mode it runs iPadOS. They can have their fast user switching animation to go back and forth. It'll be perfect! /s

I'm not sure why people find it so confusing to be honest. On my laptop, which is a laptop and not a two-in-one, I touch the screen all the time. It's not about performance; if I'm optimizing for that, then I use keyboard only. But like, if I want to read some long document in a PDF reader, good GOD is it nice to be able to reach over and naturally drag, pinch, or even rotate in some situations. I do it all the time to zoom in on something to show someone who is in close proximity something on my screen. A screen with pen input is even more useful; it's a tad awkward to use on a lap that way, but on a desk it's pretty good.

The Mac trackpad gestures let me do all that without having to reach up to the screen to do it.

Yeah sure, I have a multi touch trackpad. Hell, I have a 2022 MacBook Pro even. Honestly though it's no comparison to using a touchscreen for me in terms of feeling natural, it's just not even close.

I supposed it’s quite personal, but for me the benefits of not covering the content, not dirtying the screen, the reduced need to reach (side swipe, pinch to zoom), and the close proximity to the keypad are quite compelling.

Even my Lenovo laptop can do this just almost as well as a modern Macbook these days.

Though to be fair, for a long time, it was actually hard to get decent multitouch on PCs. I recall using modded Synaptics drivers. It wasn't until Microsoft Precision Touchpad drivers came around that it really felt similar to Mac for me. Now even libinput on Linux does a pretty OK job with typical PC trackpads, so things have definitely changed. I recall hearing patents played a role in how slow this was to come to PCs, but I have no source.

I recall that was the case. It's quite smooth, and I have 3 finger 4 finger gestures as well.

Yeah, it’s been a while since I last used a PC for work (2017), but the trackpad on the laptop I was given was damn near unusable.

Yes, before I got a Mac, I had Windows and the touchpads were ....meh. I could see some value in a touchscreen. Now that I've experience a Mac trackpad, I see no use for a touchscreen. The trackpad on Mac is amazing.

> On my laptop, which is a laptop and not a two-in-one, I touch the screen all the time.

Reminds me of https://youtu.be/VBWtcQJAtWc

> But the Apple equivalent of Microsoft’s Surface Pro? That would make much more sense, in my opinion.

Isn't that what an iPad Pro purports to be? I mean, that's why Apple gave us the $400 Magic Keyboard(tm) and support only for the latest Magic Mouse 2 (no support for Magic Mouse 1, because Apple...?). And of course, you can use any Bluetooth mice with it.

I think the convergence will not happen on the Mac side, but on the iPadOS side - with MacOS eventually subsumed by the iPadOS. Apple is just getting you comfortable.. frog in a pot of water and all.

Yes and the fun part is this debate always goes the same way.

Scenario 1

Someone says "I wish I could use my iPad to do more things, the hardware is clearly powerful enough" and an 'apple enthusiast' always replies "Why would you want to do that? Just get a Macbook!"

Scenario 2

Someone says "I wish my Macbook had touch controls" and an 'apple enthusiast' always replies "Why would you want to do that? Just get an iPad!"

And before someone gets upset because it also happens every time. I'm not saying all apple users/fans but there is very common type who refuses to possibly acknowledge that others might want to use their devices differently than they do.

“Why don’t you buy both?” Ugh I’m not made of money.

I really, really don't want a touchscreen Mac, because I know what it'll do to the Mac software ecosystem.

Immediately lots of apps will be ported to the Mac Store from the App Store and expect you to use touch, because that's the easiest thing to do. I can't even use touch because I use an external monitor.

Over time the platforms will bleed into each other, and Macs will become as unproductive as my iPad is. (And I like my iPad, but for different use cases.)

Yes, I know this is already happening to an extent. But to accelerate it would be a disaster.

> Why do you want to touch your Mac screen so badly?

I don't, and I don't want random third parties trying to do it either. GTFO with your greasy fingers away from my nice clean Macbook Air screen.

I absolutely hate it when people touch my screen. I can never imagine putting my fingers on my screen over using my mouse / keyboard

Jobs himself would come to you and force you to touch your screen with your greasy fingers.

You do you need a pen? You have 10 of them on the end of your hands.

or whatever the quote is in the movie. Is that actually what Steve said about the Newton? is Steve twisting in his grave because of the apple pencil?

I'm not sure to which movie you're referring, but the "we're going to use a pointing device we're all born with" is from the iPhone announcement:

https://youtu.be/X1SyRElYGoM?t=1710

Apple pencil isn't required for interaction with the device, unlike old resistive touchscreen devices of the Palm Pilot era, so I doubt that's the reason he's spinning.

I was referring the the movie “Steve Jobs”:

Steve Jobs : It was the stylus, John.

John Sculley : What?

Steve Jobs : I killed the Newton because of the stylus. If you're holding a stylus, you can't use the other five that are attached to your wrist. [Holds up hand, smiles]

Steve Jobs : The things we could've done together. [Walks out of the room]

John Sculley : [as the door closes] God, the things we could've done.

Slightly OT: When explaining things I'll touch the screen (of MacBooks). When I'm with another coder, I touch their screen to explain things. I once had a developer on my team who didn't want his screen to be touched. I was sorry to touch his screen - and he immediatly wiped it - but couldn't stop. As soon as I was enthusiastic, I touched the screen again.

I'd be your coworker, except I slap hands away. You touching my screen is just as inappropriate as you touching me. You did not ask nor did you receive permission to touch me or my screen. Just don't do it.

You are framing this almost as an assault. I think if someone slapped me while I was trying show them something at work I’d probably avoid helping that person again.

I don't want to spend the time to clean your greasy finger marks off my screen.

It's easier for you to not touch. If you REALLY want to poke, use some kind of tool to do it instead of smushing your finger on the screen.

If you’re someone that can’t keep their hands to themself, then I probably won’t come to you for assistance. So we’re all in agreement.

How would you feel if I came up to you poking at your face? You may not have enough respect for other people’s property to think “it’s just a computer screen”, but the key point is it is just a computer screen that is NOT yours. Keep your hands to yourself, and we’ll get along famously. Put your hands on me and my stuff, and we’ll see how well you and HR get along

I don’t have greasy fingers and I don’t touch other peoples screens. It’s the idea that it’s now acceptable to slap peoples hands away rather than use language to request someone doesn’t do something you don’t like, that I take issue with.

"I'd be your coworker, except I slap hands away."

Would be fine with me.

I hate people touching my monitors/screens, and it's not even because they get their hand oils all over it (though that is /also/ a reason).

No, the real reason is because they will almost always ever so slightly nudge the monitor/screen out of position. Now I have to waste like half an hour getting the placement back /just right/ before I can get back into my zen mode again, in addition to wiping the hand oils off.

I can see that.

They were the only one who didn’t hesitate to express it, most likely.

Could be but most likely there are two types of persons, those that don't care and those that care about their screen being touched.

I touched screens of people who were in the position to kick me and who were very outspoken, and they didn't care.

I don't think anyone actually wants a touchscreen mac, they're just suffering grass-is-greener syndrome because Windows laptops have it. It's like looking jealously at your neighbor's boat, while your neighbor is silently feeling serious buyer's remorse.

It's a little ironic that 20 years ago Jobs promoted their desktop UI as 'lickable' and now there's pushback over whether desktop displays should even be touchable :p

The same Jobs that was so pivotal to Apple that ten years after his death the share price has gone up massively since?

Perhaps its time we acknowledge he wasn't such a genius and other people can market shiny trinkets just as well.

Apparently one can't quip without a point being missed entirely.

How about because I just like having choices, like a touch screen laptop, or 3D TV, or DSLR camera, or multiple ports and easily swappable batteries on my devices? I am Ok with paying extra, or waiting for made to order shipping, or limited model selection, or added weight / thickness. But this day there is a real push to force everyone into the same tastes rather than have a meaningful market segmentation.

As to practical issues, even on a clamshell laptop, it's more convenient to scroll by swiping sides of the screen while lying down rather than being an arm to use trackpad. I read for half an hour before sleep every day, so it's a common use case. Chromebooks are the only laptops that seem to support this reliably.

I hate to break this to you: Reading in bed on a laptop while laying down is not a "common use case".

Both my windows laptops have touchscreens and the only time I use the touchscreen is when trying to clean the screen.

I don't ever reach for my Mac screen because I'm not used to interacting with a large touchscreen. But I'll bet I would enjoy being able to use a stylus on my laptop screen when doing a few things such as Photoshop editing.

The only time I’ve ever wanted to use my Mac screen as a touch device is white-boarding in zoom calls. Even then a stylus would be far more practical than touch

“The way I’ve always done things is the best way” chapter 5,344.

So why do you read and comment on an opinion piece in the first place if you dismiss his opinion in the blink of an eye anyway?

Because it’s an uninteresting opinion that’s simply a reflection of the author’s unthinking and un-self-aware conservatism. It doesn’t add any value to anyone and there’s no point in posting it on a site like this.

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