I would never want my friends to know how much I make, only 3 of my closest family members know that.
It's a terrible idea. Couldn't care less of strangers, but irl people are envious, toxic and potentially dangerous.
It's a terrible idea. Couldn't care less of strangers, but irl people are envious, toxic and potentially dangerous.
My coworkers are all in roughly the same socio-economic bracket, give or take, but I have friends and family who very much are not, and there's no need to ruffle feathers, no upside at all.
If you're young and nerdy and making not too much more than the average American household, it's probably fine! Once you're quite a bit more than six years out of school and making multiple times the average family, it's a bit more dicey.
But would you be ok taking a pay cut in order for you and your equivalent peers to make the exact same amount?
Cuts both ways.
Cuts both ways.
I know it's convenient to believe that all employers are greedy Scrooge McMusks taking advantage of their employees, but most businesses are actually small and run by normal people just trying to keep the lights on without losing their shirt.
Walmart/Starbucks know if emps talk they unionize…
Try running a job search on any big job board and you'll see what I mean.
Stronger employees will make stronger product. Even if that means stake/shareholders, who do not make the product, will receive less return on investment.
So: what is the purpose of business? Provide jobs? Provide ROI? And at what ratio? Once that is decided, it’s easy to figure out what’s “allowed.”
Even for a company that advertises and publishes their pay scales, an employee at level x will look at another employee at level x (with the same experience, same tenure, same everything) and think: "this isn't fair, I'm way more valuable to the company than they are". And maybe they're right, or maybe not. But the employee believes they are being treated unfairly all the same.
Where should the employer take the money to pay above market rates? He would have to charge the customers extra and maybe lose some of them. This could lead to job loss for the newer hired.
Owning a business is hard. Being a human is harder. Leave some of the challenge up to the business. ;)
Even for a mom and pop - yes. They work on the concept of exploitation if the workers do not also own the business…
There is a problem with worker's owning the business. They almost never do and aren't interested in owning it. This would also include owning the debts and possible failures
This is an unproductive view, imo. On the whole, business owners stick their necks out to start a business and provide their employees with a job that they can sustain their life with.
> for wage at the lowest possible cost to the employer.
Yes of course. Why shouldn't the business owners be rewarded for building a profitable business and giving their employees a living? That's what capitalism is all about.
Walmart has ZERO real human “neck stuck out” stress when you get to the top and have billions racked up.
Yet Walmart still dislikes it when employees discuss wage.
Why?
I agree with you that it's in Walmart's interest to not want employees to discuss wage. If I was in their position I wouldn't want my employees talking about it either, even if I'm doing my best to be "fair". That's just because there's no such thing as "fair", especially at Walmart's scale.
I need to admit: I am a leftist, an iww member, and far too underfed in the last few days so my replies probably seem punchy.
I’m really just pissed that I have an opportunity for a cool tool at my shop but have to write the script in bash because if I wrote it in say Rust, it’d be just as cool but not supportable after I left. :p
Making employees both pissed at each other and at the same time too scared to talk about salary means the employer gets it all the more easier to pay employees less.
Employees are of the same class - and therefore should be open and honest about salary and benefits in an effort to ensure all members of the employee class are compensated appropriately and the employer is aware they need to compensate accordingly.
Scaring them with a spooking about salary talk being taboo just further divides people and only benefits the corporation’s desire to pay people as little as possible, ensuring they pay shareholders as much as possible.
The workers do not own uber. They do not see profit. ROI or anything like that.
And before someone mentions: yes, it is the corp’s duty to provide ROI to shareholders. Investment comes with risk.
*Why are people more “ok” with hedging investor risk by trading it for a lower worker quality of life?*
When workers discuss more open, they become more class conscious, they realize they can be paid more, and they fight for it.
With no workers there is no product.
With no investors, there is product, when the workers are the owners - they become the investors. ;)
Before I finally made the decision to just not talk to my parents anymore my dad would constantly shame and belittle me about what my earnings were; he's at a partner level in finance and is under the impression that my lack of income - while still being in college - is representative of his 'failure to raise me correctly', as...unhinged as that sounds.
I don't have any other family because my parents have basically had this attitude for the last 20 years and their siblings understandably do not like to be anywhere near them - as a byproduct I've never met my extended family.
It can be just as bad if people discover you earn less than them.
Ransome, asking for money etc.
Nobody care if you make 50k but if you make 500k suddenly things change.
It's just never a good idea to tell people you make good money.
I don't buy expensive things, i don't show off. I quietly invest and will retire asap and enjoy a quiet relaxed life.
I don't want a target on my back or people asking me money or treating me differently.
Yes they are non-zero, but so is the chance of a plane crashing into your residence...
He decided he should become an angel investor (with almost no experience), blew through at least a couple hundred K there, started his own company, blew through the rest. He lived a high maintenance life style: expensive cars, expensive house, spouse that didn't work. If he had done nothing, kept the stock, stayed at his original job, it would be worth at least several million today. That public company did very well.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-1485089/?page=1#i404...
If you actually earned that amount you are much more likely to properly handle your finances.
I'll usually check in with people if they're comfortable with talking about money, but otherwise I've never had trouble with anyone knowing how much (or how little) I make.
I kind of see it as a trap, I guess - if knowing how much I make prejudices you against me, than I'd rather you show yourself for who you are sooner, so I can keep you at an appropriate distance. I've got no time for people like that.
I make much more than my friends.
That stirs envy, jealousy, people asking for money and poses a danger to me and my family.
I don't want someone to come rob me in the night because a long tongued friend told other.
There's literally not one good reason to tell others you make good money. It brings NOTHING good.
bro, i don't want to tell you how to live your life, but if you are describing people as envious, toxic, and potentially dangerous than either these are not your friends, or you have a horribly low opinion of people.
We don't have evidence if the problem is you or them, but I would say a fundamental baseline expectation from a "friend" is that they should be HAPPY not envious of your successes.
Friends talk about friends.
Guarding your family from various criminal activities may be hard.
This all may add up not in your favor eventually.
To you, that might be good, positive, and normal. IMO it was toxic and fueled by envy with no actual information to support their position (and, admittedly, no information to deny it either). They only wanted my salary information to help progress their position in life, which to me is not so different from Google or Facebook wanting such private information for their own monetary gain.
I found this interview eye-opening of how serious (and dangerous) money can be, when the people around you don't have any: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKutkXy1Eeo&t=1178s
Even when it's not a situation of danger, though, money can still drive a wedge. The friends you made growing up, you were then equals (and neither of you had anything). Your financial success can become a mirror into their financial struggles, and not everyone does ok in that situation.
Anyway, boasting of financial success is something I find sad, unnecessary and potentially dangerous.
Tomorrow some friend of a friend junkie may need money and may think I'm collecting rolexes or idk.
Better people don't know shit.
Rich does not necessary mean independently wealthy.
Way to not work on class unity.
I’ve told my friends, family, peers, and anyone else how much I made all the way from delivering newspapers for criminally low wages, to doing random IT work in my local town of 4,000 people as a high schooler, to working as a cashier at a department store making minimum wage, and all the way up to my 7 figure TCs.
You know why? I want people to know what’s possible and what’s available out there. I want them to advocate for more money. When I tell them what I make - they think, “fuck, I should ask for more. You’re right!” They become more incentivized to advocate for unity among the working class as well because they realize without good bargaining - they will lose out.
Terrible idea for everyone. If people get jealous - tell them how you made it happen. If it was luck - fucking acknowledge it. If it was back breaking work - acknowledge it too. Acknowledge all the parts good and bad that got you to where you are. That’s what I do and everyone has no substantial resentment at the end.
Btw - I work as a typical engineer in SV. Nothing special.
It's also dangerous and unnecessary and comes as posturing.
I live a modest life and no one has to know how much I make.
It's a terrible idea to share it, if you want that's your business.
That's what would stop me from sharing my salary openly. Actually thinking about it more I wouldn't be worried about friends/family knowing at all.
For example, if you make a lot people may expect you to pay for dinner more, or worry less about inconveniencing you financially. Not in a mean malicious way, but in a "Tommy's not gonna sweat this $20". Or the opposite, they may question why you have that new car, when your finances don't really justify it. They may be looking out for you, but really that decision should be yours and your spouse.
I'm not sure what upside there is to letting anyone know.