Tipping Is Spreading and It Sucks | Hacker News Reader

Tipping Is Spreading and It Sucks

passingtime.substack.com

69 points2715341 comments

I simply do not return to a restaurant where the server holds the POS screen in front of you at the table for all to see. Usually the tip is pre-selected for something like 25%. Clicking "custom" and choosing a different amount is intended to make you feel embarrassed.

Another place is counter service. They want a tip right after you order and are paying. Haven't even tried the food. No idea how the service is going to be.....and you want a tip....based on what?

These places will not see me again.

Are there even any places left for you to go?

Right! That would disqualify me from going to every coffee shop and small quick service restaurant in my city.

Can you type in a negative amount? :D

An easier solution is just to not care about the opinion of random people you'll never meet again in a shop. I still pay 10-15% in traditional tipping settings, and nothing elsewhere. It doesn't bother me at all if anyone thinks that is too low.

I had this reaction too, but then I heard a NPR segment where the interviewee mentioned that often times counter tip money doesn't go to the workers. So it's basically just the business asking you for more money than the posted price.

After hearing that it became easier to not leave a tip at the cash register. I think that's better for all involved than avoiding these businesses.

I don't think that is legal in many US states. It is clearly not allowed in my state:

https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/wages/tips-and-service...

Interesting, are you seeing an explosion of counter tip prompts there?

Yes. And there are lots of mandatory tips going on as well, but in any case, as long as they call it a "tip", Washington state requires it to go to either servers or servers and kitchen staff (if a tip pool is in place).

Just for reference, this is my source: https://www.npr.org/2022/12/27/1145579337/tipflation-why-you...

BISWAS: People usually assume that that money is going to the server or the employee. Anything paid to the digital interface goes directly to the company's account, and it is up to the company and any contract they have in place that would determine how much of that money, if any at all, gets shared with the server or the employee. Just the word tip doesn't mean anything

The company can collect it on behalf of the service, they might even have a tip pool in place, but in Washington state at least, there are strict rules in who gets the tips, even if they are made via a credit card/digital interface. Yes, businesses are free to break labor laws, but Washington state is very aggressive about punishing that kind of law breaking, so it just takes one employee to make a complaint.

When I visited the US I was surprised at the ubiquitous tiping culture.

Here in Australia we don't even need to tip in restaurants. You order your food, you pay the price, and you go home. Servers are nice because that's part of their job and they are being paid to do that.

The same here in Europe. But they are getting US-style terminals and software here.

Sometimes waiters get a little embarrassed about it and tell you to just put in a zero amount. Sometimes they even put in zero themselves before handing you the terminal.

Tipping does happen, but "suggestions" for a specific amount or percentage seems wrong. Then you might as well include it in the price, which is what we have been doing since 1969.

Don't get pressured/suckered into making the same mistake we did.

That's how it should be.

There's no reason the server's service should not be covered by a reasonable salary that doesn't depend on tips.

I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich.

"Essential" personnel have long been underpaid. The pandemic made that more obvious. I would rather that they get a decent salary, and set prices accordingly, but I can at least show my gratitude for the genuine risk they're taking.

Now that the pandemic is over, of course the store owners don't want to reverse the ratchet. They've had a hard time keeping staff, because they're fed up, and they're hoping to raise prices without raising prices.

I know that tipping is controversial even among tipped staff. For many the net result is well above minimum wage, and they'd take an effective cut if we paid them $15/hour. Places that experiment with eliminating tipping often give up, in part because customers are bad at math and will go to places that are "cheaper" on the menu.

It's just a bad situation. It's clear that the lack of tipping in Europe does not create bad service, but there doesn't seem to be any way to that point from here.

> I was happy to tip, even for counter service, during the pandemic. I think it sucks that people were out literally risking their lives to give me a cup of coffee and a sandwich.

And you were out, also, literally risking your life to pay for it. That argument goes both ways so shouldn't be seen as the sole/primary reason to tip.

Yes but the server came into contact with 500 people that day, for minimum wage. We came into contact with just one, got a cup of coffee out of it and then went to WFH on tech money.

The STD ads tell us otherwise

If the average person starts tipping less or nothing, the workers will all go to the businesses with higher base prices and wages. It won’t matter if the other store has lower printed prices because they won’t have anyone working the business.

I'm not going to say "I'm tipping you nothing for your own good."

I would prefer to not shop at places where they pay their employees badly and try to make it up in tips. If I had places that promised good wages, I'd prefer to shop there. That's easiest at small stores where I know the employees personally -- they're not telling me their salaries but I know if they're happy working there.

I only tip bartenders, delivery people, and waiters at actual sit-down restaurants after the check arrives. Everyone else gets 0.

I don't think I've ever had any friction about this. Sounds like social anxiety.

I don’t see what the problem is. It’s not mandatory, you can literally just tip 0 for everything.

Service seems to be better in places that don’t accept tips. Maybe the business should be responsible for maintaining a level of service, not individual customers.

That sounds like a reasonable assumption.

Brit here. I view tipping as dishonest. It's a trick to make something seem cheaper than it is.

They're your employees, you pay them. Don't expect me to be a charity. Give me the cost up-front. If I decide it's too much, then I should take my business elsewhere. "That's the price, cough up or piss off."

Be honest and straight-forward in your dealings.

Shopify appears to be integrating a tipping feature into checkouts. They even have the same % breakouts as the POS terminals.

It's unclear why any sane person want to contribute tips to an online merchant who hasn't even fulfilled an order?!

There's also this new IRS program going after the service economy that's reliant on tips https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-introduces-new-service-indu...

Minor tipping is a good thing in that it's a way to give feedback and create incentive. The problem is that the expected amount is too high. A full-service restaurant expects around 15%, but a sandwich shop should expect more like 5%. Tipping should also be done after the service is rendered, not before. Otherwise, it has no feedback value.

A sandwich shop is selling you an item for a price. Handing you the item you bought isn't rendering a service, and so there's nothing to tip for.

The idea of tips as feedback is fallacious - a server doesn't know if a 15% vs 20% tip is due to their performance or just the person tipping. And the service has to be really bad to leave no tip at all (and even then, there are plenty of people who do this regardless of service). Furthermore, especially with a to go order, customers won't even see their orders until they get to where they're going and unpack. The real incentive/feedback in the restaurant industry is whether customers come back.

The answer to the larger topic is just say no to attempts to expand the terrible practice - the original Uber had it right. And stop making excuses for not paying attention to dark patterned UIs, like being perpetually "in a rush" or worried about the people behind you in line. Take some responsibility for knowing how much your order should cost, so you notice when the big number disagrees.

It's a terrible thing. Just set the price and be done with it.

At least with tips, I’m reasonably confident the staff are getting it.

Note: in California, tipped staff receive minimum wage (or higher) before accounting for tips, so any tips they receive is in addition to their normal pay.

This is not the case in most of the U.S., where tips relieve the business of part of their obligation to pay wages.

This was true in WA before it was true in CA. All west coast states (including Alaska) do not allow tips to go towards minimum wage. Throw in Minnesota, Montana, Nevada as the other states that do this.

Similar to another user, I tend to visit the places less often that have the tip terminal. It happened more subconsciously.

Nearly every coffee place does get ruled out except establishments like starbucks. Even corporate chains have a tip menu, last I encountered was during thanksgiving day and I was happy to tip that day since holidays. But moving on, I order using order ahead feature. The tip menu is there but its a software UI with no barista standing behind.

After reading the article, I realized even for picking food up I end up using the restaurant site or using the pickup option through the food delivery apps. Restuarants often already either have a rack or a setup for delivery orders.

I think it's justifiable to tip for service but if you're just picking something up, it's retail, and that's not something you should be tipping for. The writer should've choose a custom tip of $0.

The latest trick I've started seeing in the UK is tacking an extra "12.5% optional service charge" item on your bill.

"optional" as in, you have the right to "opt out" by embarassing yourself in public for not wantinf to pay your stated bill.

12.5% is NOT a small amount, especially when you've already paid ridiculous amounts for things that would have been far cheaper (or free) otherwise, like water!

UK wasn't even a tipping culture until very recently (at least not in the "below minimum wage" sense the US is).

Tipping is a way for cheap employers to skimp on the pay. It's a horrible practice and it needs to die.

You were happy with the food and have the service a tip? What about the cooks and the other people involved making sure you got an enjoyable experience? They don't get anything. The pretty girl? She gets triple the tips the older guy gets, despite being equally friendly and humorous and polite.

Just pay those people a decent salary already.

I went to buy some specific keyboard switches last night. Ended up using one of the myriad small random vendors that the industry is full of, clearly on a Shopify cart. The checkout process had a tip button. For physical goods that will arrive in my mailbox in several weeks. Skippable and 1 to 3 percent, but still, this completely undemines any model of how a purchase transaction works to me.

The Starbucks near me recently switched from taking your card at the drive thru to holding a card reader out the window which asks for a tip. It seems kind of absurd to ask someone to fill out the tip amount with one hand from their car.

I tip and it is usually the norm of 10% - it is a physically demanding minimum wage job and they deserve it just need to get my order right, maybe offer alternatives, leave me in peace to eat and not spit in my food.

Quick tip: If you can't afford to eat out -> learn to cook.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com