Comment by natasham25 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by natasham25 | Hacker News Reader

I was a complete beginner at coding a few months ago. I really really wanted to learn, so I've tried going to local meetups designed to teach newbies to code and I've tried Codecademy.

The problem I found was this tendency to start with the terminal as the teaching tool. The terminal is a black and intimidating hole to a beginner. Sure, I happily typed in 2+2 and got 4 as a result, and I understood how to store variables and even if statements and while loops, but honestly, I found this to be too abstract. I didn't understand what the terminal was and how typing in 2+2 was supposed to help me build a website, which is why I wanted to learn to code to begin with. I got frustrated and quit learning to code for a while as a result.

But then I decided to try out the free Stanford CS106A course. I was hooked from the very first lecture. Instead of starting at the terminal, Stanford had me download Eclipse (which is less intimidating than the terminal) and they started with a fun "Karel the Robot" language. In the first assignment, my goal was to make Karel the Robot run around the grid and drop / pick up diamond 'beepers'. I LOVED it. The excitement I got from actually getting Karel to do what I wanted was exhilarating and far more rewarding than getting a pretty badge from Codecademy. I completed the course in about a month and am now learning Ruby, which I absolutely love.

My point is, people want to learn to program so they can build something, so starting off with concrete and fun projects (versus typing random stuff into a Terminal) is the way to go.

Is there a link to this Karel the Robot exercise or is it a hand out?

We're in the amidst of creating something complimentary (different too) to Codecademy called http://CodePupil.com. We're eager to see different styles of teaching; especially examples where gaming is used!

As noted in the OP's article creating a new experience and especially one that teaches all the Elizabeth's how to code is a big challenge. We've been asking our friends like Elizabeths to test and then we reiterate. Also we've found Mechanical Turk to be helpful in re: to user testing feedback. There seems to be a lot of Liz's there.

I too tried my hand at it in a side project: iheartpy.com

See if there's anything you find useful in it. Although, I think this comment needs to be someplace else.

Checked out iheartpy. Nice and interesting UI!

THough I wonder it asked me to sign in using my Google account. Is there an option to use the site further without signing in?

The application would have access to see your email address i.e. <paul's-id>@gmail.com

The app uses it to send a welcome message to users. Unfortunately that's the default minimum permission set granted by App Engine Users API. Further, I promise not to be evil:

      iheartpy.com/privacy.txt

Feel free to write to me for any feedback and/ or help.

       diwank@iheartpy.com

Whoa! Try zooming on the page (command+/- or control+/-). It's like watching a caterpillar walk.

I highly recommend you check out all the exercise for the Stanford course: http://see.stanford.edu/see/materials/icspmcs106a/assignment... (the ones at the bottom, not the top). The reason the class was so much fun was because we got to make Breakout, Hangman, Yahtzee, and ended by creating a simple version of Facebook.

I think this what you are looking for:

http://www.cs.mtsu.edu/~untch/karel/

I would argue just the opposite actually. Eclipse has a very intimidating interface intended for experienced developers -- I remember when I was learning Java I used Eclipse and it was not user friendly at all.

Also, my first intro CS course also used Karel the Robot, and while it was cool that I could see this guy run around on the screen, I kept wondering "what is the point of this"? It didn't seem useful or related to writing actual programs at all. While it is less abstract than typing commands in a a prompt, it still felt very contrived.

But I guess that depends entirely on the student's motivation for learning to code -- are they looking to build a website? To understand how computers work? Because they like solving puzzles? Just to "try it out"? Teaching through a robot game like Karel probably would not be a good approach for those who want to get their hands dirty and build actual stuff (and Java is probably not the best first language). But for those who are more interested in understanding computer science / puzzles, those who value the problem solving aspect of programming, a tangible game like Karel might be better.

However, I'd still say CodeAcademy's approach with browser based lessons is much better -- there's a much lower barrier to getting started than downloading and setting up an IDE. Furthermore, they have complete control of their site design. I don't think introducing REPL at the beginning is the best idea, but it's better than hitting the student with a sledgehammer like Eclipse.

Perhaps a compromise would be a very simple game in Ruby/Python? There was a web based Ruby game on HN recently, intended for experienced programmers, in which you wrote the AI for a bot navigating through a map. Obviously that is too complicated for a beginner, but I imagine something simpler could be both appealing, engaging, and accessible.

It is interesting to see how much has changed in the past 20 years or so.

It used to be that terminal was the standard when it came to learning ones first language (think BASIC in most of computers in 80s).

EDIT: I wanted to criticize the choice of learning programming by starting with something as unwieldy and bloated as Eclipse and Java.

My mind changed, as I read about Karel language. Starting with a simple language that can actually do something then gradually building up is great for learning.

However, one point still stands, BASIC was basically one level down the abstraction from machine code, while Karel is now four levels down. This is the inevitable price of progress just like we can't build a toaster completely from scratch(http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toast...).

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