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Comment by lostoldsession | Hacker News Reader

The irony that this is exactly the kind of garbage that SaaS is, yet it's the bread and butter of many here.

Another irony is this kind of bullshit from printer vendors is exactly what spurred RMS to advocate for free software (https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/201cthe-printer-story201...)

In my youth I found RMS to be excessively dogmatic, inflexible, and obsessed with ideological purity even in situations where it didn't appear to be relevant or matter.

I now see that he was probably right about everything, and every year, users lose more and more ground in the war.

Actually, both can be true (and are).

RMS has some issues, but ultimately even deeply flawed people can still have great ideas. He's a good example of why a good message shouldn't be ignored because of the messenger. No one is right 100% of the time about everything, but he was absolutely right about the importance of freedom and technology. He's got some great views on copyright too.

I'm not sure it's the same at all. With most Saas, there's no upfront cost, there is nothing you "buy" that you can reasonably consider to be "yours" and use in isolation. Say, a managed database, you pay per resource unit whatever it is, time, space, whatever. If you use a managed service you pay per user or whatever.

How is this the same at all?

Eh... I think SaaS is just a more polished version of basically the same idea.

There absolutely is an upfront cost - a company has paid to create the software that enables that SaaS.

They are simply hiding that from view of the customer, and only offering a rental option.

You used to be able to actually buy stand-alone software, which you installed, and managed on hardware you'd bought, and which upgraded only when you decided to buy again.

But... it turns out it's less profitable to sell standalone software - so the vast majority of vendors are just quietly dropping that option and moving to subscription only licenses: SaaS.

Basically

> there is nothing you "buy" that you can reasonably consider to be "yours" and use in isolation.

Is entirely intentional, and exactly what the printer manufacturer wishes they could do - except they have the pesky problem of having to provide hardware that actually prints at some point. But it's DEFINITELY not the only way to sell software.

All these examples are missing the nefarious bait-and-switchy property to them like the printer example does. When you start using a managed SQL DB from GCP for instance there is no expectation whatsoever that you can use that offline. But you can still spin up a PostgreSQL and use that offline, no problem. No one can turn that off. Sure there are things like licensing but those have existed forever.

> You used to be able to actually buy stand-alone software, which you installed, and managed on hardware you'd bought, and which upgraded only when you decided to buy again.

That's not what Saas is usually considered though, at least in my experience. A note taking app needing a subscription to work isn't what I imagine this thread means when we talk about SaaS.

Businesspeople addicted to subscription revenues like they were crack cocaine. It's pathetic, IMO

What delineates businesspeople addicted to subscription revenues and people desiring regular pay (salaries) at regular intervals?

The difference between being paid regularly for regular work, and charging an ongoing fee to use already-purchased hardware to its fullest potential.

I am referring to the desire. I presume almost everyone would like to be paid a salary, regardless of working or not working, just like "businesspeople" want subscription revenues.

Everyone has the desire for fist-sized rubies and emeralds too, but having a desire for something doesn't make it reasonable. Exploiting customers so that 'businesspeople' can get what they want isn't justified by "But everyone wants things"

Sure, we should expect them to be greedy, but when they get too greedy we should hold them accountable. It's too late for me though, I stopped buying HP printers ages ago and while all inkjet printers are scams, and I would advise anyone to avoid them in general, HP currently tops the list of printer companies I'd recommend people avoid.

When they try to make their lives easier at the gross expense of their customers?

It's like those terrible runaway train memes where one track has 100 people and the other track has 1 rich man. Guess which side they always choose to run over?

Is your plumber charging you monthly for your toilet subscription?

Coming from a "I deal in hardware and professional services around implementing that hardware" background SaaS always struck me a bit different than this kind of thing. SaaS is basically a rental whereas you've bought these things and then need to still pay rent to use them anyways.

I think about this often. I feel justified by working on a product that is strictly B2B, enterprise software. No predatory practices towards end users. Is that any better or am I deluding myself?

Yes you are. Your end users are B, but that doesn't matter if the practices in question are in fact predatory.

>> I think about this often. I feel justified by working on a product that is strictly B2B, enterprise software. No predatory practices towards end users. Is that any better or am I deluding myself?

I think the question is whether you're providing an actual service that has value, or just charging rent for the software and calling it SaaS. Software has a marginal cost of ZERO, so SaaS is often simple rent-seeking. A company might actually use the money to develop a better version of the software, but that's actually optional on their part.

I prefer this model to that of ads-based revenue, because it leaves more room in the market for competitors (FOSS or otherwise).

Not the same.

There is no ongoing cost (to HP) when I buy a printer from them. Whereas, a SaaS has to pay (presumably) server fees.

No worries. This will last until Eu and other OECD countries crack down on it.

Hey, we're better that others, we have a on-prem version if our SaaS!

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