Hacker News Reader

Comment by diebeforei485 | Hacker News Reader

Honestly very disappointed that phone makers haven't implemented radio in phones.

Am I too old? We did, but no one wants it (normally). It would require gov intervention to widespread require it.

We had the weird thing involving wired headphones, yes.

I hadn't realized this was something that was happening. My Oppo A53 (?) still has FM radio via head phones. Same with the Nokia 2710 flip.

Being someone that usually lives in the low end, I have never had a phone without FM.

A good rule of thumb is that if your phone has a headphone jack, it also has FM radio. And whether it has a headphone jack depends on whether the phone aims to be waterproof.

Waterproof phone = no headphone jack = no FM radio. There are some exceptions, but it's more often true than not.

How come different connector can be sealed but jack not?

They can, but it's much much cheaper to get rid of them altogether.

the USB connector is a box that is not open to the inside of the phone, at least every one i've seen. I've even seen a couple of phones where the box that held the USB connector also had a speaker in it. I guess a headphone jack could be put inside of a similar box, but the main difference is all the contacts in TRR plugs are spring metal that are attached to the outside of the plastic housing and poke through, and that's if the spec calls for any sort of reinforcement. The simplest headphone jacks are just spring metal in empty space.

> Waterproof phone = no headphone jack

The Asus Zenfone 9 has a headphone jack and is rate IP68 (up to 1.5m for 30 mins):

* https://www.asus.com/mobile/phones/zenfone/zenfone-9/

* https://www.gsmarena.com/asus_zenfone_9-11656.php

The iPhone 14 Plus is also IP68 (up to 6m for 30 mins):

* https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_14_plus-11862.php

GSM Arena's search criteria shows >200 phones that have 3.5mm jacks and IPx8 IP Certification:

* https://www.gsmarena.com/search.php3

> GSM Arena's search criteria shows >200 phones that have 3.5mm jacks and IPx8 IP Certification

Released in last five years: 303 with IPx8 certification, out of which 122 also have a headphone jack.

So out of every three waterproof models, two don't have a headphone jack. Seems to support my rule of thumb.

Your rule of thumb is wrong a third of the time which is a D grade.

Technically passing, I suppose.

Yes, that's what rule of thumb means.

It doesn't imply it's always the case, just more often than not. >60% is more often than not.

I think you're a bit off on what rule of thumb means. Something that's false 1 out of 3 times is not "generally true".

If it was a 51/49 split in probability would you still call it a rule of thumb?

Every Samsung galaxy flagship from the S4 to the S10 had a headphone jack and was waterproof. This heuristic only works for recent models where headphone jack means it's a budget model and they've probably skimped on waterproofing.

> A good rule of thumb is that if your phone has a headphone jack, it also has FM radio

Another good rule of thumb, if your device was intended to be sold in the US, then the carrier had the radio disabled for anti-consumer reasons.

radio in englisch is quite overloaded, what do you mean? an fm receiver? a shortwave transceiver (as is the case in the 10m band)? a vhf/uhf transceiver to participate in lpd/pmr/fmrs, 2m/70cm ham?

I believe in this context "radio" is "commercial radio", like what's available in a car.

My bet is countries having all kind of taxes, stamp fees etc when it comes to adding such features and phone makers not wanting to pay the fee. Or maybe it is a patent fee. Your device can support FM or can play radio? You need to pay 20 cents per device!

No, it's just that apple disabled it first and many others blindly followed. My samsung s10 still has FM radio (and phone jack). It's also energy efficient

Many phones had FM, but if you look the models for Verizon had FM disabled. The international versions had FM, AT&T had FM, Verizon didn't. They are also much more likely to lock their bootloader, and other anti-consumer things.

Some have! https://www.unihertz.com/products/atom-xl

HTC Evo on Sprint 4G had an FM radio. Used the plug-in headphones for antenna.

The older Freestyle (IIRC) also had this. It was my first "smartphone" before I got a real smartphone. I actually kind of miss being able to listen to the radio that way. Not sure how well it'd work these days since most people use wireless headphones.

My Ulefone Power Armor 13 has FM radio and doesn't require headphones to be connected.

WiPhone is working on a LoRA module: https://wiphone.io/docs/LoRa/latest/

They are implemented in the existing chips just not enabled in software. Qualcomm's ubiquitous LTE modem chip has FM radio baked in. There was a whole push by the FCC in the US as well as some FM broadcasters to mandate it be enabled. See:

"Your Phone Has An FM Chip. So Why can't you listen to the radio?":

https://archive.is/YMLsM#selection-1393.0-1393.64

and

"Dinosaur Broadcasters Turn to Congress to Mandate Their Relevance":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/garyshapiro/2012/06/06/dinosaur...

and

"Trump’s FCC chief wants it to be easier to listen to free FM radio on your smartphone":

https://www.vox.com/2017/2/16/14638304/trump-fcc-free-fm-rad...

Implemented? Or enabled?

I think it's because the antennas are different.

My old flip phone used the earphone as the antenna. The radio wouldn't work without it plugged in.

EDIT: It was a Nokia 6086, and the radio was an FM receiver.

https://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_6086-1798.php

https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=1138

Anything that plugs into the head phone jack acts as the antenna.

Mesh is a bit like fusion research so

> phone makers haven't implemented radio in phones

It's a ragulation thing.

is it? please provide proof. afaik it's a kneefall to Spotify/apple music/youtube music

it's a kneefall to Spotify/apple music/youtube music

That seems unlikely, radio (even Satellite radio) is not the same product as streaming music. My car has an AM/FM radio, the only thing I've ever used it for is tuning in to roadside traffic alerts when the sign is lit. The car came with 6 months of XM/Sirius satellite radio -- I tried out the Satellite Radio on a long road trip but didn't last a day before I went back to Spotify where I have full control over the music that's playing and can skip and rewind songs at will.

I don't think streaming music has anything to fear from FM radio on phones, I think the reason phones don't still offer it as a feature is because no one wants it.

I know about an Italian law from 2017 mandating that "all devices with FM radio must also receive Dab + services" [1]. Phones with only a FM chip obviously don't receive digital radio so I remember that as unintended (?) consequence Samsung was releasing updates to disable the chip. However the FM radio in my A40 still works.

[1] https://www.world-today-news.com/goodbye-to-fm-radio-on-smar...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com