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Comment by roncesvalles | Hacker News Reader

Same and same. Also, I hate how these days it's somehow shameful to even think about making friends at the workplace, that somehow work friends are work friends and can never be your "real friends". Looking at my parents' generation, most of their current friendships are people they met at work. In fact my parents met each other at work.

We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?

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I've made plenty of real, meaningful, long-term friendships at work. But I also have solid friend groups of people I've met outside work. I value all of them, but I'm not going to give up the opportunity to have more flexible working arrangements because some people seem to think they can only make friends at work.

> We go to school and make friends with other people at school. Why is it wild that you'd want to go to work and make friends with other people at work?

"Want" and "need" aren't the same thing. We made friends at school because we had no choice. We were required to go to school, so of course the result is that we'd end up making friends there. But even as children, we had other opportunities to make friends: recreational sports leagues, boy/girl scouts, church groups (if that was your family's thing), volunteering, etc. Sure, I'm not saying those sorts of things could replace socialization at school.

But in the adult world, we've already been socialized, and we should be able to meet people outside of required, structured activities. It's a shame that some people perhaps didn't learn that as well as others, but I don't think that's a problem best solved by requiring unrelated people to come to an office, when remote work offers so much more flexibility and many more possibilities.

This is exactly the attitude that I'm protesting against. I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months. Work or school are really the only places where you can spend that much time with someone.

Then again, part of the problem is that people have forgotten what real friendships are like. "Friends" these days are just people you go to restaurants/clubs/concerts/vacations/hiking/camping with so that you don't have to go alone. That's not friendship. That's just people you hang out with.

It might cure the itch for a real friendship, but don't confuse it for one.

You’re assuming your feelings about how other people make meaningful relationships are universal. It can be true for you yet untrue for others. It seems a bit much to state it as fact.

Establishing a common goalpost is critical to even discussing this topic. I agree that "meaningful" is personal and subjective, but it's also incorrect to take the lowest common denominator definition of friendship as the valid one.

Totally agree re your first sentence. The second sentence is stating things as fact with regards to how you feel about relationships.

I don’t see how a persons feelings about how they think about relationships can be invalid.

Look, I have plenty of close friends of many years who I see every single day. My home is essentially a community gathering spot at this point. My social calendar is as packed, if not more packed, than my work calendar. And for me personally there’s no overlap between the two. I am friendly with all of my colleagues, but I would not call them friends.

Forcing me to come into an office would not change that; I completely understand that those in a new city without a strong group of friends would benefit from going to the office— and at most jobs they’re already free to go in if they choose, to work alongside people who also _choose_ to go into the office. Choose is the key word here. Work for me is a job first, and I’m not looking to make a best friend at work, so don’t force me to come in for that reason alone.

> I don't agree that you can make even close to the same depth of friendship with someone who you see 2 hours a week, vs someone you see 8 hours a day 5 days a week for months.

With the exception of fast food, I have never, ever spent this kind of time with a co-worker. I don't deny jobs like this exist, but it would certainly be the exception for all the tech jobs I've worked.

> that’s not friendship, that’s just people you hang out with

weird I thought you were talking about coworkers for a second

Work friends can 100% be real friends. There is nothing shameful about making these at work. There's also nothing about remote that makes it impossible. I know, I've done it.

That said I would be very, very careful about assuming your work friends are real friends. People are often surprised to discover which connections vanish when you quit working together. Hence why I strongly advocate for finding friends outside of work. Makes it much less likely you get laid off or leave your job one day and suddenly find yourself lonely.

Yeah, some of the people I work with I’ve known for 20 years! For me it’s weird to imagine spending a large chunk of your life with these people and not forming some sort of personal connection.

You go to school to learn so you can earn not make friends. You are paying tens of thousands a year to be taught by the best and you think it's for socializing. Think of all the people who cannot afford school is there no way for them to make friends.

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