How to Paint Like Hayao Miyazaki | Hacker News Reader

How to Paint Like Hayao Miyazaki

animationobsessive.substack.com

233 pointszdw87 comments

> What Miyazaki makes clear throughout the guide is that he is, proudly, a cheapskate who isn’t fussy about tools. He looks for reliability and convenience. His pitch for Holbein paints is just that they’re “reasonably priced and a little goes a long way.”

> In his notes, Miyazaki purposely leans into sounding old and stuck in his ways. He rants about how he’s painted with nothing else for 40 years, how easy and cost-effective his tools are — and then he undermines himself by suggesting that, really, this is all he knows how to do.

There's a deeper truth which is easy to overlook here.

If you want to get good at some creative pursuit, you have to put a lot of time, attention, and decision making effort into the skill. All of those are finite resources.

It's really easy to squander an unbelievable amount of time and effort on choosing gear. Doing that is time not spent mastering the craft. You might get really good at picking shit out, but you won't get good at painting, or poetry, or song-writing, or whatever.

This is why so many successful artists seem stuck in their ways or dismissive of gear, or, conversely, fetishize certain gear. Those are all mental techniques to minimize the effort they spend on picking stuff so that they can focus that effort on creating.

I would go as far and extend that to almost every profession.

I mean, when I started programming, I could spend ours choosing the right library, tools, or whatever.

But nowadays, when I have an idea, I stick to C# and Visual Studio. Because that’s the language i'm familiar with for over a decade now. Which doesn’t mean I don’t look right and left - but still, I don’t want to think about my tooling.

That's right. As time go by, I care more about functionality. I didn't wasting time on gnome-look when I install a fresh Ubuntu like before.

Same. Although when I start a new project, I still spend hours shopping for the latest and greatest frameworks/libraries/tools that I haven't had a chance to use yet. I can't help it lol.

This is a trap I fall into once in a while, getting too obsessed with my tools or environment. I sometimes try to remind myself of this part from the Red Dwarf book Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers about Rimmer's studying habits:

> And now he sat there under the pink glow of his student's table lamp, preparing to sit the astronavigation exam for the thirteenth time. He found the process of revising so gruelingly unpleasant, so galling, so noxious, that like most people faced with tasks they find hateful he devised more and more elaborate ways of not doing it in a "doing it" kind of way. In fact, it was now possible for Rimmer to revise solidly for three months and not learn anything at all.

> The first week of study, he would always devote to the construction of a revision timetable. Weeks of patient effort would be spent planning, designing and creating a revision schedule which, when finished, were minor works of art.

> Every hour of every day was subdivided into different study periods, each labelled in his lovely, tiny copperplate hand; then painted over in watercolours, a different colour for each subject, the colours gradually becoming bolder and more urgent shades as the exam time approached. The effect was as if a myriad tiny rainbows had splintered and sprinkled across the poster-sized sheet of creamwove card.

> The only problem was this: because the timetables often took seven or eight weeks, and sometimes more, to complete, by the time Rimmer had finished them the exam was almost on him. He'd then have to cram three months of astronavigation revision into a single week. Gripped by an almost deranging panic, he'd then decide to sacrifice the first two days of that final week to the making of another timetable. This time for someone who had to pack three months of revision into five days.

It's really easy to squander an unbelievable amount of time and effort on choosing gear.

It really cannot be understated how true this is. I've been trying to get back into digital music composition and arrangement and spent way more than I thought I did to get myself off the ground. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have the financial reserves to spend what I did, but in hindsight... man was a lot of it unnecessary. I've spent more time reading about and following discussions involving tools and sample libraries than I have re-studying music theory, orchestration, and actually producing something.

It doesn't help that in this day and age, there are a ton of choices a person can make. Both choice-paralysis and "screw-it-just-get-everything[-if-it's-on-sale]" are absolutely real phenomena.

Every hobby I had, from woodworking and metalworking to poker, to photography, to telescopes, to piano, everything that requires practice and hands-on work: there are internet forums where you can talk about the hobbies and the gear an the tools and the tactics, and research and endlessly debate and compare, but they all will eventually grab you by the shoulders, shake you and say “Get off the Internet! Turn off the computer! Go and actually do the thing over and over!” Best advice you can get.

This suddenly explains to me a lot of stuff in computer engineering/programming.

1. The developers who fight over vim vs emacs or other tools. A defensive mechanism.

2. The occasional developer that spent their lives working with C and C++ who attack Rust but only makes excuses on why.

3. Myself who spends way too much time trying to find the "best" development environment rather than just coding.

And I'm sure people could mention a bunch of others.

It is so easy to burn ten or fifteen minutes a few times a day just futzing with your development environment.

Relevant and pleasant watch: https://youtube.com/watch?v=sz4YqwH_6D0

Having never seen any Studio Ghibli films before, I watched all of them in release order last month, Jan 2023. I'm so glad I did. With few exceptions, the films are masterpieces of cinema, not just animation. Nearly any single frame from nearly any of the films would make gorgeous wall art.

I'd recommend anyone who is remotely interested in animation, Japanese films, or films in general to check them out. All but 2 (for licensing reasons) are available to stream on HBO Max. I believe they have both subbed and dubbed versions, though I preferred to watch with subs.

> Nearly any single frame from nearly any of the films would make gorgeous wall art.

Studio Ghibli provides hundreds of stills for their movies on their website:

https://www.ghibli.jp/info/013409/

Yes, for the most part Studio Ghibli's art is insanely beautiful.

I opened a couple of Ghibli movies on the HBO Max app just now, and the only audio and subtitle options were English.

I think HBO Max is weird in that you have to pick the options before you start the movie. I found I couldn't change languages from the audio track or subtitles options while the movie was playing. But I can 100% confirm that I watched all of the movies on HBO Max in Japanese audio with English subtitles. AppleTV 4K.

Thanks for the tip!

https://i.imgur.com/nuRLkcH.png

The only way I can find to switch the audio track is by clicking the word 'English' on the description page (screenshot above), before hitting 'play'. This is really confusing because:

1. There's an option to change the language track once you're playing the movie, but it doesn't show the other option.

2. When you click that button, there's a helpful notification saying you can choose language in 'settings' (which isn't the case!).

3. The icon next to where it says 'ENGLISH' looks like a speech bubble, which to me indicates 'subtitles'.

4. I have to click the word 'ENGLISH' to switch to Japanese!

Ah yes, I remember doing this dance at the beginning of January. As you've discovered, there are about two dozen UX violations with this procedure. Thankfully, I only had to do this once; all the rest of the films played in Japanese by default from then on.

Why is it a problem?

The original versions of the films have Japanese audio, and you're missing out on that if you watch them in english.

Also, at least on the Disney blu-ray releases, there were some notable differences between the English dub and the English subtitles. The most glaring one I ever saw was in Porco Rosso when Curtis says he's from Alabama in the subtitles but from Texas in the dub. The Japanese voice acting is also usually way superior, even though they hire quality actors for the dubs.

For example, Gillian Anderson is a great actress but she doesn't do the character of Moro (in Princess Mononoke) justice, especially compared to the Japanese VA (Akihiro Miwa).

See their voices compared at 4:19 https://youtu.be/1X4RWYsDs8A

I think if you watch Pom Poko[1] with the dub, you're watching a completely different movie.

> Prominent scrotums are an integral part of tanuki folklore, and they are shown and referred to throughout the film, and also used frequently in their shape-shifting. This remains unchanged in the DVD release, though the English dub (but not the subtitles) refers to them as "raccoon pouches".

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pom_Poko

> Also, at least on the Disney blu-ray releases, there were some notable differences between the English dub and the English subtitles.

Some or all of them have 2 different English subtitle tracks — "English" and "English for the Hearing Impaired". For reasons I don't understand in the slightest, they sometimes differ. English for the Hearing Impaired is the one that matches the English Dub.

Dubbing imposes constraints on translation, you have to chose words that look alike when lip syncing. Sometimes dubbing is more like a creative translation, different from original text

Neil Gaiman changed Kaya from Ashitaka's romantic partner to younger sister. He also inserted a fart joke into a moment that didn't deserve it.

The dub is above average, but the original with subs is the best way to watch the film.

Mononoke Hime is still in my top 25 films. If you haven't seen it, please treat yourself. I think it's far better than Sen to Chihiro / Spirited Away.

(FWIW, I bought the domain for Miramax's original marketing page and kept it online: http://princess-mononoke.com)

Who is Kaya, and in what part of the movie does Ashitaka have a romantic partner?

Kaya is the girl at the beginning who meets with Ashitaka secretly after he’s been banished from the village, and gives him the necklace as a memento.

Ooh, I never realized that! Thanks.

afaik the English dub literally changes the ending of Kiki's Delivery Service

There are a lot of differences between the English and Japanese audio in Kiki. For instance, there are more silent periods in the original Japanese version, whereas in the (American) English version they almost stereotypically cannot stop talking. So it seems there was some cultural adaptation beyond simple translation.

> There are a lot of difference between the English and Japanese audio in Kiki

Definitely. Jiji (the cat) has a totally different character if you listen to the dub vs the original Japanese. One of the few instances where I prefer the dub... but I think it's just because I watched it that way as a child. This article [1] is convincing me to go back and give the Japanese audio another try.

[1] https://www.otaquest.com/anime-kikis-delivery-service/

Another layer for this—Kiki's Delivery Service was originally a book series. As far as I am aware, only the first was ever translated into English, and it was translated twice. The second time somewhat recently, and should still be easy to find. There are quite a lot of differences between the two, and you can really see how Miyazaki focused the plot of the movie on what he considered the most important aspect. But in the books, Kiki never loses her ability to converse with Jiji (at least not by the end of the first book; I don't know what happens in later books).

Anyway: if you like the movie, I would recommend tracking down the book. Some of the movie's scenes are lifted directly, but (as always) there's scenes I would have loved to see show up in the movie that didn't.

> One of the few instances where I prefer the dub...

Phil really does a great job.

> the English dub literally changes the ending of Kiki's Delivery Service

True, but that is a rare case where the dub is making a gigantic improvement.

Improvements is a relative term when it comes to art and story telling.

> Improvements is a relative term when it comes to art and story telling.

Improvement is a relative term in all contexts by definition.

Complete tangent:

Last year I watched Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown (1988), a fairly amusing Spanish farce (Almodóvar, so, you know). In the movie some of the characters play voice actors dubbing an American movie to Spanish and I wondered, what movie is that?

The movie they were dubbing is Johnny Guitar (1954). Which is how I came to discover a film that's now well in my top 10.

Maybe don't try that for the voice acting scene in "Jesus of Montreal"

This isn't the case - Studio Ghibli's English dubs have always been perfect, with the studio being very careful about their quality, and in some movies such as Spirited Away, there's sometimes even details of the original design that are expressed in the English dub that weren't in the Japanese version, like a side character's name.

They're still a different production than the English, often with different dialogue. They're "equivalent" in terms of production value but they are "different".

I would add though, that if you aren't into subtitled movies the dubs are still perfectly serviceable and I'd still strongly recommend watching them.

Also despite some of the issues with earlier dubs, some of the later ones are good in their own ways. In the case of Howl's Moving Castle, I prefer the dub by a large margin, Billy Crystal was especially good.

one notable aspect is the lack of silence in the English dubs, the originals use it to great effect but the English dubs always tend to have background music inserted in

it doesn't make it unwatchable by any means but the vibe is no longer as impeccable

https://youtu.be/jM6PPxN1xas

This is why.

I'd recommmend Mamoru Oshii's movies too, they are masterpieces as well.

Did any of them stand out to you in particular? Which was your favourite(s)?

Any you didn't like?

My favorites were probably "Grave of the Fireflies" (warning: it's heavy and devastating), "Pom Poko" (very funny), "From Up on Poppy Hill", "Arrietty" to name a few. The fantasy-centered films are good, but my personal taste tends to lean towards the slice-of-life/coming-of-age films so that's why those were some of my favorites.

The only truly "bad" movie of the bunch is their latest from 2020: "Earwig and the Witch". It's computer generated instead of hand-drawn but it looks like a computer generated film from the early '90s. Just ugly and uninspired. And the story was not good. It had promise but did absolutely nothing with it. Very disappointing film. Thankfully, it looks like their next release (summer 2023) will be back to the hand-drawn style.

Earwig and the Witch was a really fun movie to watch back when the Gamestop short squeeze was in the news. It's a film about overcoming cruelty and injustice through a hacker mindset, rather than resolving conflict through cathartic resistance. Goro in an interview said:

> "Isao Takahata, Hayao Miyazaki and Yoshiyuki Tomino, are, in a manner of speaking, the first generation of those who experienced the war, who saw a radical change in values. Their opposition to authority and violence began from a certain kind of resistance, and they came together to make something, to start building something new. I think it's a kind of revolutionary mindset. But it's not possible for those of us who were born amid the period of economic development to possess that. The answer I've come to now, which made me think while making movies, is found in Earwig."

> "There's dubious stuff going on across the world, and there's no rosy future waiting after an upheaval. And this state of affairs will probably continue," Goro says. "If people rose up democratically against violence, would stable peace eventuate? It's a very difficult situation. I get the feeling that an ending with catharsis isn't something you should portray without careful consideration. At the same time, we need some kind of fantasy to live mentally enriched. We realized the time has come to decide on where to put emphasis."

fwiw, Earwig and the Witch, while produced by Studio Ghibli, was not a Hayao Miyazaki film (it was directed by his son) and was critically panned. Definitely one to skip.

And the elder Miyazaki walked out during the premier of his son's first feature film in an apparent expression of disgust at his son's creation. Not exactly a model father.

Old Hayao was not a good father, even more so for Western standards. He dragged his son into his work, and then effectively threw him under the bus when it became clear he was not going to be particularly good at it. From the outside, it looks like a classic case of a capostipite, the upstart who builds a family fortune and is then disgusted at the fact that his son is of a different breed.

Looking at it from the elder Miyazaki's perspective: Seeing that disaster of a film and realizing that your name was going to be associated with it forever after you spent your entire working life establishing a very high standard was probably a very difficult thing to endure.

I rather think it’s the opposite. It was a decent film, but all the others are masterpieces. It sucks for Goro because it’s basically impossible to live up to the standard unless you’re a once a century genius.

As much as I love his films and their stories/values, the elder Miyazaki is definitely not the greatest of people.

He was one of the first instances I can think of where I came to understand "don't meet your heroes".

Edit: Never met him in person. Mostly meant 'meet' in a figurative sense.

For the record, that was for Gedo Senki (Tales from Earthsea).

I don’t think it’s one to skip at all. While not at the same level it’s still quite entertaining.

But maybe not watch in the same sitting as the other movies.

The grim tone of Grave of the Fireflies and the equally bright and cheerful tone of Totoro made more sense to me when I found out that they were a double feature at the cinema.

Also check out 10 years with Hayao Miyazaki!

As an engineer, The Wind Rises really spoke to me. One of my favorite films of all time and one I’d recommend any day of the week.

Which one was your favorite :)? Mine is mononoke

Porco Rosso or Castle in the Sky

Spirited Away is amazing too

If you enjoy Miyazaki-related things, you may also enjoy Miyazaki being awkward around Akira Kurosawa.

http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/interviews/miyazaki_kurosaw...

People are delightfully awkward around their heroes. Your hero probably had their own hero, too.

Miyazaki is a humble person. Humility looks like awkwardness from a distance. Just saying...

Except if you're demoing machine learning AI in front of him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZ0K3lWKRc

I think he felt offended because the young guys probably think they made a good imitation of some dark slimy creatures featuring in his movies. So he makes a point of telling them that those creatures move that way because they are suffering whereas the animations they showed him are random

I'm not sure it was that they were random (I doubt he understands RL at that level) he was more offended because as he said "it was in insult to life" and an insult to his disabled friend who has to live with the pain of disability. Putting myself into his mindset or the mindset of my father who is the same age I guess I would probably see it as some kind of cruel experiment as well. I mean, obviously those young guys suffered some embarassment there in that exchange (just look at their faces) as they revere Miyazaki, but trying to put myself in the mindset of someone who is from the era he is from, what he said makes some sense. His last statement that we humans are losing faith in ourselves is poignant.

I mean if you showed me that saying that in a couple thousand generations it will beat a team of animators or Mocap performers at a walk cycle, I'd tell you to get lost and roll the dice on my animators. Miyazaki has no mercy.

He also called his son's first film crap, again I'd be less blunt about it but I have to agree. I saw Earwig and the Witch. Holy crap its bad.

Hey John Henry, what do you make of this steam drill?

That was so funny that it felt scripted.

The two do not seem so distinct tbh

I like to program this way too. And make music this way. And build things this way. The fewest tools with sufficient utility.

You'll find this interesing (if you missed it on HN): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23974878

Thanks! I saw the headline back then but didn't get my attention and didn't open it. So glad you brought it back now!

Thank you for sharing!

I had a Boogie Board once that saved to SD. The pencil had a bug in it that caused the point to randomly bounce about. I drew a few “sloppy” images with it and then got a replacement pencil. The replacement did not produce sketches with nearly the same character and I grew to miss the defective pencil.

There was, until recently (I'm pretty sure it's gone now), a Ghibli/Miyazaki exhibit at the new AMPAS museum in LA. It was an amazing show. They had many of Miyazaki's original watercolors there and they were so, so good.

The part missing from the "paint like Miyazaki" instructions is the part where you study and draw for 60 years! He has the touch of a master, both delicate and confident in the way of, say, Ingres and Watteau drawings. Much different subject matters, obviously, but it's the feel I'm talking about. Absolutely beautiful. And he is a master watercolorist, which itself takes a long time to learn.

This is not to dissuade anyone from picking up these things. Just please don't expect too much too soon!

Maybe not the best place to ask but I recently visited the Ghibli Museum (which was awesome highly recommend). In one of the rooms set up as a workspace exhibition there where drawings and notes displayed on the wall. Some of these contained handwritten Russian notes. As well as a hand drawn map of medieval Moscow. There where some other things like a drawing of ship which looked inspired by Battleship Potemkin. I assume these where used as references for some of their movies. Does anyone know if Miyazaki or any of the other animators could read and write Russian? I couldn't find any information online apart from Miyazaki being inspired by The Snow Queen (Snezhnaya Koroleva) (1957).

I'm not sure if he could read Russian, but in addition to the Snow Queen by Lev Atamanov, Miyazaki frequently cites Soviet animator Yuri Norstein as a major influence, and lists two of his films (Hedgehog in the Fog, and Tale of Tales) as among his favourites of all time.[1] Several of his movies do have shots that seem strongly reminiscent of the Battleship Potemkin so I'd be surprised if that film wasn't an influence as well, although I don't know of a source that states it.

[1] https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/hayao-miyazaki-25-favourite-fil...

I love the main part of the foldout. I have no interest in art or watercolour painting but it really makes me want to give it a go.

Good paints are really worth it, and a little bit goes a long way, but buying all your paints at once can get expensive. I'd recommend quinacridone rose, hansa yellow medium, and phthalo blue green shade, and phthalo green blue shade. This is the most economical way to get a full gamut of colors. These four colors all work very well together and can make vibrant mixes all around the color wheel. If you need a stop-sign red, just mix the rose with a little yellow. If you need a realistic green, mix yellow and the green with a little rose to make it look more natural.

If I had to add a few more colors they would be neutral tint, ultramarine blue, transparent pyrole orange, new gamboge, burnt sienna, raw sienna, and cerulean chromium.

I have more info, and links to recommended materials here. (There's no ads, and I'm not making money off of anything.) https://connor-johnson.com/2017/06/07/getting-started-with-w...

This is great, thanks for sharing!

You can get some relatively inexpensive watercolour paper and paints and give it a go. Find some youtube videos to get you started on different techniques.

But also be aware that watercolour painting is a subset of art in general. If you don't know anything about line, value, shape, perspective, rendering, drawing people and things, composition and layout, etc, you're unlikely to suddenly develop that by playing with watercolour paints.

That doesn't mean you can't play with watercolour paints, but if you haven't been interested in drawing with a pencil you're unlikely to suddenly develop a mastery of the basics while also learning a water based media, so manage expectations.

So unlike the other person who replied, I wouldn't recommend investing heavily at the outset. You can get a sakura koi field kit for $30 (and use what colors are in there) and a canson watercolor paper pad for pretty cheap and go to town seeing if its something you enjoy, before spending a lot of money on paint tubes you might never use if you find it not to your liking.

Like anything art, the primary thing that determines skill is how much effort you put into practicing and developing that skill. Start with the goal of enjoying yourself rather than imagining turning out masterpieces like miyazaki.

I'm in my mid-thirties. 2022, after watching the Cyberpunk Anime (which I liked), I watched my first „real“ animes, „A silent voice“ and „In this corner of the world“.

I regret that I didn’t get into animes earlier in my life.

On the other hand, you still have a large selection to choose from. Having started earlier in life, I’ve worked my way through all the best ones, and now I’m stuck waiting for great shows to come out in the flood of mediocre work.

There's no time like the present! I know some people who got hooked on anime in their '60s and up. There's a lot of greatness, and a lot of garbage, so it's like a never-ending treasure hunt!

(If you liked those, you'll probably like most of the Studio Ghibli catalogue, as well as Wolf Children).

Just thought I'd recommend ergo proxy as a delightful watch.

I recently picked up Starting Point and Turning Point. I would recommend them to anyone interested in learning more about this topic.

Just spend 30 seconds on writing a prompt in to midjourney

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