Comment by kahawe | Hacker News Reader

Comment by kahawe | Hacker News Reader

While the article is a nice and up-stirring read, I have to play devil's advocate here and ask:

So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about? How much impact do workers in a steel mill have? What about other simple but very common (and very necessary) jobs like the building maintenance and cleaning?

There are a lot of jobs out there that do not really directly advance society or change human lives on a large scale or have any other big impact but they still exist and people make a living off off them. And I would say most jobs are like that - (very) few people ever get the chance to actually do something truly great, meaningful and have real, direct impact on "real people".

And despite all that, what do I contribute to society although I am quite unimportant? I pay my taxes, my insurances and thereby contribute to not only my own well-being. And any software I might have written or I am maintaining is doing something useful somewhere in a very specific context and it helps people do their job which again has some impact on others and enables a company to exist and do something people are willing to spend money on and thereby that company offers jobs and etc...

Nothing wrong with being "just" a small wheel in the humongous machinery that is our world. If you ask me, it is actually (a much welcome and appreciated) luxury of modern life that we can allow space for all those "weirdos", all the diddling-around and all those strange new jobs that "real people" don't understand.

Also, it is pretty megalomaniac to assume everyone working "in IT" or reading HN is really such a rockstar and genius that they might find themselves in a position where they suddenly change the lives of thousands of people. Just because you know C or Javascript or Rails doesn't automatically make you a shining beacon of advancement of the human condition. Many people who are much, much smarter and better educated than you and me are living just as "unimportant" lives and will very likely never have a chance to become the next Einstein or Robert Koch. Learn to be more humble.

And countless scientists and artists who did change the way we think forever only did so long time after they were dead because during their lifetime, they were lucky not to get burned at the stake or starve to death in bitter poverty.

> So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about?

Let's start with yours. Have you ever been in a city (e.g., New York) that was experiencing a sanitation worker strike? Garbage-men are easily some of the most important people in a modern society. The guys that empty my building's dumpster change the lives of hundreds of people every day. I can think of quite a few scientists and doctors who would love to have that level of impact.

Ditto for building maintenance and cleaning. At one point, my university decided that it could save money by cutting back on cleaning staff. Going forward, they would only come by to empty the trash and vacuum our offices once per month; the bathrooms would get cleaned every week or two, but other than that we were to be entirely on our own. We thought that this would be mildly inconvenient- it was worse. Oh, your office-mate had a banana with their lunch? That peel's gonna be in the trash can for a long time...

It turns out that the cleaning people had been changing our lives in numerous significant ways, every day, and when that change stopped happening, we sure as heck noticed. After far too many months, the administration decided that there were better places to cut back, and reinstated more regular cleaning services. And there was much rejoicing.

Your life is the way it is because a very large number of people are doing very unpleasant and/or difficult jobs, often for surprisingly small amounts of money. These people are to be honored and thanked at every opportunity, IMHO, and personally I try to as mindful as I can about the numerous and concrete ways that they change my life.

Yes, I realize that and was sort-of pushing for this reply... in a way you can apply that to hackers and sysadmins too because just turn off a couple of mail servers or routers and people's lives will get worse quickly as well. The point is, while most of us won't be a Henry Ford, we still contribute in our own way - OP seems to not value or count that.

And I absolutely agree with your last paragraph. Too many places they are still being looked down upon...

> "So how many lives have garbagemen changed in the way OP talks about? How much impact do workers in a steel mill have?"

I'd argue these people have a greater impact on society than a lot of hackers. These people are contributing directly. Take away the garbagemen (as the city of Toronto did, for a little while) and observe their impact (or rather, smell).

Compare to the innumerable hackers being employed to build, well, a whole lot of nothing, much of which won't ever even see the light of day. Between running out of cash, big-company reorgs, and just plain bad ideas, there's a lot of software being written that simply won't benefit anybody in any significant way.

Humanity is reaching an unprecedented amount of specialization - we used to live in societies where the purpose and contribution of a particular person to the whole is easily understood by everyone. The cooper makes barrels, that the vintner uses, so that we can all enjoy wine. The blacksmith makes tools for everyone else, etc etc. As we abstract and specialize, we need to maintain perspective and never lose track of what role we play in the grand scheme of things.

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