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Comment by blantonl | Hacker News Reader

Pity the executives who have been forced to stand side on to the camera, tilt their heads slightly like a giant parrot, fold their arms and told to look natural. If you ever saw someone standing like this in real life, you would think “better cross to the other side”, not “I bet that person is great at creating shareholder value.”

Hilariously true.

Especially the crossed arms photo. "I am executive and I mean business!"

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The CEO for the first company I ever worked for got really bad advice in this regard. In his head shot he tilted his head to the side, which is directly contrary to contemporary advice for male head shots. It made him look distinctly feminine, and playful instead of serious.

Do you have an example of this? I’m struggling to imagine how a head tilt could in any way convey femininity.

Something like this? https://www.pinterest.com/pin/401101910536217641/

If you Google "Sassy gay guy" about half the results have this same pose.

Reminds me of a guy I used to work with. If you did a Google reverse image search on his Linkedin profile pic, Google's best guess was "college."

It's a bit outdated to think this rigidly about things, but when a subject has one shoulder higher than the other, tilting the head toward the higher shoulder is historically considered a more "masculine" pose, and toward the lower shoulder a more "feminine" one.

This webpage is a good articulation of the classic way of thinking about portraiture, but I should clarify that I disagree with the entire premise of rigid "masculine" and "feminine" posing:

https://www.spencervillebearcats.com/userfiles/88/my%20files...

Sounds like something that could self-perpetuate, and probably not worthwhile fighting against? Like blue is for boys (although used to be for girls: 1918: “the generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls.”).

I think GP was simply pointing out the current connotation, not advocating or fighting against it.

While the photo might not be a good example, in the animal kingdom exposing your neck, like exposing your belly, in an overall non-assertive way would indicate submissiveness. It's in your interest to be submissive if you doubt you will win in combat. I'll leave the thought experiment to the reader as to whether females or males do better in combat and why this head tilt might be predominantly nature not nurture.

Thanks for the useful source information, although it shows the masculine head tilt as leaning towards the lower shoulder and vice versa for the feminine one.

yup, I got it backwards!

Reminds me of that priceless paragraph from Michael Collins' autobiography about how the Air Force sent their astronaut candidates to a "charm school" in order to increase their chances of being selected by NASA, where among other things they learned how to correctly hold their hands on their hips:

"… in my opinion, the apogee of the course was surely reached the day we learned how to hold our hands on our hips (doesn’t anyone learn anything at home any more?). Thumbs forward, ladies! Thumbs to the rear, gentlemen! To reverse would not only be gauche (perhaps even worse) but, of course, would result in instant detection and rejection by NASA, the old meanies. I have studied this matter exhaustively in later years, and have found burly construction workers with thumbs forward and mincing fairies with thumbs aft, but then they obviously are not charm-school grads."

I guess I'm screwed. I have natural head tilt.

Mine isn't natural but due to an old neck injury. I guess some of us just can't be good at this.

Relaxing neck is... checks notes gendered somehow?

What makes a head tilt feminine?

Playful/serious - sure, whatever chose what tone you want... but feminine - why do you say that?

Isn't the head tilt usually indicative of paying attention, listening, and being curious - how are any of those things feminine (specifically)?

Seems incredibly dumb to me... more so, the people that pay attention to those things - and classify them into gendered boxes - I have lower opinions of what they would espouse as advice. Exactly the same as people obsessed with machismo - it is silly, and petty.

More to the point: it seems kind of sexist that men would be taken less seriously if they tilt their head...

And super weird implications about how femininity is perceived in general as antithetical to leadership: that's just plain sexism right?

> Relaxing neck is... checks notes gendered somehow?

Yup, lots of things are gendered. I know it's a bummer, but here we are.

This, for example, would not be considered a traditionally masculine pose, despite the facial hair:

https://media.phillyvoice.com/media/images/JVNPhotoCourtesy....

I wouldn't call it masculine or feminine. I would call it a bit shy and a touch inviting.

I understand people 'think' a certain way... but there's also objective reality - where the source of 'masculine' and 'feminine' are attributes or properties of the subject or object in question - is not the subject or object themselves, but in the perception of them (by themselves in the case of living subjects; or by other's in the other cases).

I Understand your point - I disagree with respecting people's opinions of such archaic mentalities (as old dinosaurs should get with the times or go extinct), I just don't support machismo/sexism - and this seems like such a clear example of this - judging a pose in a gendered way (and implicitly saying there is a superior option to choose (masculine) - that's the quite part) renders (to me) that person's opinion on other subjects suspect: due to the fact I can no longer trust their opinions aren't routed in sexism.

This is also such a common real estate agent pose that south park mocked it

the addition to the real estate pose is to make absolutely sure your Rolex is high up on your wrist, and the arm is prominently crossed in front, with the sleeve slightly pulled back to accentuate the watch.

There's a weird self fulfilling prophecy aspect to it. People mock it, people notice it, but also have decided "this is what these pictures look like," and they conform when the occasion arises.

When we went public and the first wave of new c levels rolled in and cheeseball chat avatars started to show up in our ecosystem we mocked them. None of us even used real photos at the time except HR. They spread though. People still make fun, people who have them make fun, but it's a thing you do when you're Business. Humans are funny creatures.

It reminds me of the rantsonas on YouTube, who inevitably have an arms-crossed pose so you know they meam business.

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