Top-Left Magic Corner Desktop Paradigm | Hacker News Reader

Top-Left Magic Corner Desktop Paradigm

rentry.co

48 pointsthastings53 comments

As a teenager, I always put the Windows task bar on the left, under the logic that vertical space was more important than horizontal space for reading text. (Yes, this is the sort of thing I thought about as a teenager.)

As an adult, I've switched back to the bottom. Teenage-me's reasoning wasn't wrong per se, but in practice I feel 16:9 screens already provide sufficient vertical space, whereas I like having more horizontal space to keep multiple windows open at a time. When I was a teenager, I usually just kept everything in full screen anyway.

I think my experience has been similar. There's a couple reasons I can think that explain it;

- Resolutions improving/increasing has made multiple windows per screen feasible, in past you pretty much had to do full screen and toggle windows to multitask

- Mouse/scroll support followed. I can scroll on an inactive window these days. In past, you had to toggle and put focus on the window to be able to scroll, meaning you had to toggle windows to multitask

- Multitasking has become so multi. I am engaged in different apps/windows and need to watch them. I might have open a video on an eighth of my screen too just to watch something as I work. The only app I can think that came close to this in the past was AIM.

Some screens have enough vertical space—16:9 ain't included unless ginormous.

This confuses me. The aspect ratio is independent of the absolute resolution.

This ratio is by definition short vertically. Yes it could be 100” or 2.5m across in 8k resolution, but not what folks typically mean.

It is a good article but only starts to go into features I consider important for an efficient desktop system.

Select/single click paste. This is the big one. it turns copy/paste from a deliberate action to a natural motion. It always surprises me how infuriating going back to hotkey copy/paste is.

Point to focus. Point your mouse at what window you want to be active. Not a huge deal but it goes well with the next point.

Don't raise on click. usually I want a window where I am looking something up. And a window I am working in. I hate it when the window I am working in jumps to the top on focus obscuring the window I am looking at. It should only raise when I click a specific spot(usually the border).

If you get this far you realize that overlapping windows are not doing much for you. so you start using tiling window managers. Unfortunately some applications interact badly with tiling window managers. If you have such an application you may never reach this point of desktop efficiency.

I admit, I was skeptical when I started reading your comment, by the end I was thoroughly convinced. Even with good hotkeys for tiling window management and switching, there's still a lot of friction in my setup.

Envious since I probably can't replicate all of your features on MacOS.

> Envious since I probably can't replicate all of your features on MacOS.

Don't raise on click: if you can remember to cmd-click, this mostly works, even with right-clicking. The window receives the click and doesn't raise.

Point to focus: you can get this with yabai [0]; note that it recommends disabling SIP (and keeping it disabled) so that it can install some hooks into Dock.app, but you don't need to do that if you only want focus-follows-mouse.

select/single-click paste: you can get pretty far with hammerspoon (hs.eventtap to notice mouse drags, double-, and triple-clicks, and then use hs.uielement to get the text that is selected), but it's handicapped by apps that don't play nicely with accessibility (browsers and electron apps in particular come to mind). [1] has an alternate way which notices selections as above and then uses hs.eventtap to send synthetic cmd-c keydown/keyup events, but I haven't tried it.

edit: now that I think about it, I think you might be able to do the don't-raise-on-click behavior with hammerspoon as well, by capturing click events, checking their `mouseEventWindowUnderMousePointer` property (see [2]), and if that is not the window that is currently focused, block that event and send a synthetic copy with cmd- added (and if cmd- is already in the mod mask, treat it as "I want to raise that window" and do the opposite -- block the event, copy it and remove the cmd- modifier, and post that synthetic event)

[0] https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai [1] https://github.com/Hammerspoon/hammerspoon/issues/2196#issue... [2] https://www.hammerspoon.org/docs/hs.eventtap.event.html#prop...

Thanks!

I have the top-left corner on MacOS set to act as a "hot corner." Whenever my mouse goes there, it triggers exposé, showing all my windows to me. I got the habit from using gnome3, which does this by default, and find it quite handy with muscle memory.

I use the top-left corner in macOS for "Disable screensaver." When I'm pondering something on the screen for a while, I can just move the mouse there and not be interrupted.

When I use my Windows machine, it's probably the feature I miss most. I've asked my IT people at work, and they tell me there's no way to disable the screen saver on demand in Windows. I don't know if that's an OS thing, or just one of their policies.

Conversely, Option-top right corner activates the screen saver.

There is SOME way to disable the screensaver, because you can play a movie and the screensaver doesn't come on.

So poke around.

https://www.softpedia.com/get/System/System-Miscellaneous/Di...

"caffeine -imdsu" in the terminal seems to work very well for that purpose.

Normally Windows apps can call SetThreadExecutionState to request the screensaver not come on. Video players do this, as do some other apps. See here[1] for a Powershell script that does just this, for example.

I suppose they could have deployed some group policy that disables this behavior. That'd be annoying if it's the case.

[1] https://blog.backslasher.net/windows-awake-ps.html

on MacOS, caffeine is a good tool but if you need it in dock (pill?) form, the amazing Amphetamine app is there for you. It'll even (if you use safari) keep you up just long enough to finish that big download. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/amphetamine/id937984704?mt=12

on Windows, the process involves taking a Power Request. A Display power request keeps the display awake, and is the overriding above most all else. It's trivial to do with a little PowerShell ( https://blog.backslasher.net/windows-awake-ps.html ) though the fine folks at Microsoft have included it in their standard set of PowerToys as Awake: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/awake

Last I remember, this keeps you from having a screensaver come up.

There are three other corners as well! I have one as show other windows from the same app, one as show windows on this desktop, and one for show all desktops. actually leave top left unhot because that's where the apple menu is.

My top right is "lock screen", which is a handy gesture I can make when getting up.

My bottom left is that, very handy indeed.

BTW, you can set the orientation of the Dock in Mac OS, but it will be always centered at the edge it's attached to.

(So you can't pin it to a corner like the top left, nor can you force it to extend over the full length of that edge.)

And you can extend the Dock in many ways, by adding folders or stacks, make them behave as menus or grids, ect.

Yep, and auto-hide the dock. I use an application launcher + cmd-tab for virtually everything

You used to be able to pin it to a corner-- it was removed in 10.10 (IIRC along with a rewrite of the Dock itself) and never came back. Which is unfortunate, because a top-aligned Dock (on one of the sides of the screen) is way more predictable than the center-aligned Dock; pinned items never moved (unless it overflows and items start shrinking) when the Dock was top-aligned.

Well, UX, as in "appearance first". (My own pet grief is about the loss the of custom icons in the Finder's side bar. I relied much on those for quick navigation. Now, I have to read… I've still an old Power Mac with an old OS around, and I'm much faster on this one than one any newer machine.)

I agree with all of this, but after ~15 years of using desktop Ubuntu, I have almost completely given up on any UI customization. It never lasts more than a few years before design trends shift and something breaks. It's just not worth my time.

Maybe another distro would work out better. I'm not opposed to switching, but I don't have the time to invest in exploring other options. I still sorta know where a find a bunch of weird settings and stuff in Ubuntu, so it would be a bit of a pain to lose that knowledge.

Don't give up hope. I've been using Debian since 1999 or so -- whenever 2.1 came out -- and my changes to desktop have been driven by technology affordability rather than fashion.

I've been using XFCE since 2003ish. On a laptop, I put all the panel business on the right hand side. On a multiscreen desktop, I use the tops of each display, with different things on each, with dynamically informative things on the left and application shortcuts on the right. On a giant screen, I maintain the same concepts as multiscreen but typically use the "smart hiding" feature on the right side panel, plus a corral for minimized applications.

Focus follows mouse; windows don't overlap. On a laptop I generally want no more than 2 windows per virtual screen, and the ability to flip through them very quickly. On a desktop, again: dynamic on the left, static on the right.

Highly subjective based on personal preferences.

I use Gnome and the top bar is far from a checkbox for stylistic design for me. On it are applets that I use multiple times everyday (Calendar, Caffeine, a few custom applets, VPN controls, etc).

The author assumes that utility would come from something like a global menu which is also a choice, as I access menus only using the keyboard and not mouse.

I do love the magic corner though.

Agree with most but I've been using right side taskbars since Windows 98 owing to screen real estate (more width to spare for a taskbar than height has to spare).

Now why "right" side? Well because I'm right handed, scrollbars are right side, resize is right side, tabs extend/open to right and usually closed LIFO. I find I travel less distance across windows/Ubuntu/macos in general.

And yes I hate the Mac's left placement of window controlsnehich breaks my flow.

While having the taskbar on the left works fine on single-monitor setups, I dislike it on multi-monitor setups where the taskbar is shown on all the screens. Typically I like having the taskbar mirrored on all my screens so I can access it easily wherever my mouse is. In this case the left taskbar ends up obstructing any windows that span multiple monitors.

Ultrawide monitors (I'm using the 49" Samsung Odyssey G9 at 5120x1440) would also suffer from having a taskbar on a side of the screen -- I currently have my Windows bar at the top of the screen, but honestly, the MacOS dock might be the best usability route for this monitor setup to keep things nice and centered.

Interesting! I'm running a three monitor setup and have the taskbar only on my most right display in the right side of the display, that way I have two entire displays entirely free for use and on the third display I think having the taskbar in the side takes up less space. (My displays are 16:9, 1080p each)

To me having the same thing on every display feels redundant. But that's probably just me, because my brother has the same setup as what you described.

I’ve wanted the LG DualUp for a long time.

https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-28mq780-b

This is due primarily to hating having tons of horizontal and very little vertical… which just seems stupid for the content we all deal with most of the time. If you’re the average person, you cruise Facebook half the day and use Google Docs for the other half (I’m exaggerating, but you get it) and in either of those your vertical space is at a premium. The browser’s chrome eats space, then you have the site’s controls eating space, and then you have the OS’s crap eating space, and you get the remainder for your actual content. Infuriating.

I use hydraulic arms on two 24 inch monitors, and often have one monitor horizontal and the other vertical. The vertical monitor is pretty good for chat / feed based websites & apps. Also not bad for docs. And pretty good for code as well (I can see more of a file's structure at once).

Both horizontal and vertical spaces are important for me. I need a large horizontal space to work in CAD, and a large vertical space to read datasheets. Having a second vertical monitor is indispensable for productivity.

I like what I have with Sway: No visible docks or bars unless I press the Super key, which causes a bottom panel to appear.

This design means maximum screen real estate for apps, with dock features available when I need them.

Is this not also what you get with Windows with "Automatically hide the taskbar" set? I suppose there are scroll bars and some apps have menu bars, but that's really down to them.

I've lately been a fan of Haiku's (and BeOS') default approach of putting taskbar functionality in the (top-right) corner, without taking up the entire edge (unless you've somehow got enough distinct windowed programs running to necessitate that. Achieves most of the same paradigm; the only thing missing is the window control button placement, but the tabbed windows are a worthwhile tradeoff.

I still prefer tiled windows (particularly herbstluftwm and PaperWM), but as far as floating window setups go it feels about as well-designed as it gets.

I completely agree that the horizontal junk across the top of GNOME is a horrible waste of space. But...

> For a long time, the looks of macOS, and therefore the looks of elementary OS fascinated me. I found the dock elegant and the black bar at the top a needed bad.

> At least until I realized how wasteful this desktop paradigm is, as most of our screens, including TVs, laptop screens, and computer displays are horizontally wide.

Surely he knows that the dock can trivially be set to be vertical, right? Right?

> The top panel in macOS makes at least some sense due to their well-implemented global menu system. But what about applications that do not have menus? In that case, the top panel is just in the way of content.

Almost all applications of consequence have menus in MacOS. I guess a few /Applications/Utilities programs maybe...

The MX Linux example shown (XFCE-based) has at least a couple of further panel (dock) options that may be desirable: automatic hiding, moving to the right side, background transparency, etc. and the MX Tweaks app has a tool for backing up the panel preferences separately from any other backups if you are a panel tinkerer who has an ''oh no'' moment.

It baffles me that in thirty years Microsoft has not once thought "hey, what if the Windows desktop adjusted itself to what the user was doing?" I mean, something as simple as scaling the height of the taskbar with the number of open windows seems blindingly obvious to me.

I set the Mac OS dock to auto-hide and it frees up, like, an inch of space. Blows me away when I see people with the default-sized dock always open. Any real reason for this?

I do the same as you on my work Mac Pro, with if pinned to the left of the screen. On the other hand, for my personal Air the screen size is small enough that having it hidden means I often accidentally hover over it. The constant unintentional popping-in becomes more frustrating than having the reduced screen space.

On the Air I only use max-size windows & on the Pro I use tiles and panes.

Why do you have the icon size set so large? When I used a Mac I always kept the icons small and disabled auto-hide because I disliked how long it took for the bar to pop up.

It is way too slow by default, I set the delay and animation time to 0 so it pops up immediately.

  defaults write com.apple.dock autohide-delay -int 0
  defaults write com.apple.dock autohide-time-modifier -int 0
  killall Dock

Because you have to mouse over, wait half a second, then find and click the app you're looking for? I'd rather trade screen real estate for time.

Huh?

Then forget about the Dock and use Spotlight, I launch whatever I need in less than a second.

I forget the way to set it but you can make the delay down to 0 if you want. Lately I've been using Mission Control to switch to active ones and Launchpad for to switch to inactive ones though. Spotlight can be good too.

If you want to optimize for time, then use Alt+Tab to switch windows rather than clicking.

Auto-hide makes the edge a dead zone... Can't interact with things there because something might shift in and take the interaction. (Not that I like the Mac dock anyway, but the same principle applies to auto-hide in other settings as well).

You can set the dock size to be uselessly tiny so it’s basically invisible with auto-hide. It’s great, you have to really try hard to find it.

    defaults write com.apple.dock tilesize -integer 1; killall Dock.

related to TFA but different: does anyone know how to xrandr to arrange 3 screens into this arrangement:

                 S C R E E N T H R E E
                 screen one  screen two

so that moving the mouse vertically from screen 1 or 2 enters screen 3?

That is:

  screen one LEFT-OF screen two
  screen one BELOW screen three
  screen two BELOW screen three

Last time I tried this, it did not work (I assume because xrandr makes assumptions about physical monitor size)

I think for that kind of setup you have to specify based on pixels directly rather than relative. I think the "-pos" argument and you give the coordinates. It creates one giant virtual display (it's always a rectangle) that can accommodate the total resolution of all your displays so you might have to do some math to get it how you want. You could also try one of the GUI front ends to make a config for you like arandr.

Great advice, thanks! arandr got me setup as desired, using -pos.

Always found it strange that macOS didn't follow their OG NeXTstep design for the dock and menus.

Well, the MacOS X dock can be pinned to the right. And recall that in NeXTSTEP, minimized window icons still populated the bottom of the screen.

As the menu, that's not surprising at all. After acquiring NeXT, Apple's job was to convert it into something palatable to Mac users, and which could also accommodate both converted Mac apps (via Carbon) and legacy apps (via Classic). And they had to move fast and decisively: the company's future depended on it. This absolutely required a horizontal menu bar.

NeXT's menu system wasn't all that great anyway: it was hard to hit. Fitt's law really is a thing. I loved the tearoff menus though.

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