Acting like you know better than actual customers of FSD whether the $8K, $10K, $12K, or $15K they spent on the software is reasonable for them is the height of arrogance.
Also, characterizing the current FSD Beta system as "cruise control" is delusional.
If you pay $10K for a paint color, you get the paint color. If you pay $20K for sport brakes, you get the brakes. If you pay $15k for Tesla FSD, you get the hope that Tesla will eventually deliver FSD, much the same as a Star Citizen customer is buying the hope that they'll eventually actually be able to fly their ship in a full game.
You can still argue that the aspiration is worth the money to the customers, or that they're already getting enough value out of the partially delivered product. But I also think it's reasonable for onlookers to think that there's some level of fraud going on, given the constant promises without delivery.
We are talking about the group of people who system16 criticized for being "happy with having paid for FSD." Other peoples' needs and wants differ, and characterizing those needs and wants as if they are plain wrong is arrogant.
In the end, who knows? Who cares? If a customer says they are happy with the purchase, why should someone else tell them they are plain wrong? I can disagree, of course, but I should not tell them they're just wrong for being happy.
I don't tell people they're wrong for paying extra for a special paint color.
That's really my problem. You get used with it and start trusting it until it unexpectedly goes straight into that white van.
The trouble is, nobody can afford to employ a hundred thousand professional test drivers.
> You can still argue that ... they're already getting enough value out of the partially delivered product.
I think it's true that some people feel that way, and that's fine. But I agree with OP that the others "who honestly believe 'real FSD is only a year away'" are being taken advantage of if not outright defrauded.
Agreed, most cruise control systems are considerably better. My cruise control has never tried to swerve me into oncoming traffic.
By the same token, walking will avoid the risk of being in a highway accident. So by this logic, walking is superior to driving.
Yes, a system that doesn't try to do something is better than one that does it poorly.
> By the same token, walking will avoid the risk of being in a highway accident. So by this logic, walking is superior to driving.
Again we're on the same page, walking is superior to driving. Although the pesky cars often make it more dangerous and there are limits that make walking impractical at times.
Again, arguing that you know better about what other people do with their money is arrogant.
Full Self-Driving Capability
$15,000
All functionality of Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot
Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control
Coming Soon
Autosteer on city streets
The currently enabled features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous. The activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience, as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions. As these self-driving features evolve, your car will be continuously upgraded through over-the-air software updates.cmd-f "beta"
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hmmm...some further questioning is warranted.
So, for the people actually buying it with the actual contract paperwork and the sales pitch being provided, does the word Beta ever get used and is it fully explained?
to me, it looks like another "smear the DoJ for doing their job" campaign by those having the job done to them. it is so in vogue these days
Full Self-Driving Capability
Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.
Coming later this year:
Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
Automatic driving on city streets.
But they get the brakes and they get the paint. What they get with supposed "full self-driving" is puffery and lies.
Musk's public statements around FSD since 2014 have been lies: https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-promises-full-self-driving-ne...
In 2016 Tesla claimed that all Teslas being produced "will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." That was a lie: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now...
And these days Teslas can't even do full self-parking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsb2XBAIWyA
Now the word is that suckers who paid for FSD in a Tesla with Hardware 3 probably won't get Hardware 4: https://www.thedrive.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-gets-new-self...
Tesla was recently done for false advertising around FSD: https://electrek.co/2022/12/12/tesla-ordered-upgrade-self-dr...
Tesla also admits they have failed to deliver full self-driving but they think they don't need to refund any money because "failure is not fraud": https://electrek.co/2022/12/07/tesla-self-driving-claims-fai...
Despite the admission of failure, Musk is still running around claiming that FSD will one day magically become the "biggest asset value increase of anything in history": https://electrek.co/2023/01/26/elon-musk-thinks-not-smart-do...
It's not even bullshit artistry. It's just bullshit.