Light from an ionized state of helium in a distant galaxy
quantamagazine.org
quantamagazine.org
I came here wondering how they knew the spectra of an isotope with a half life of 10^-9 seconds
Ars Technica in particular sometimes uses A/B testing, randomly giving readers one of two headlines to see which one generates more clickthroughs (they've been transparent about that, there was an article describing it).
And thanks, hope you enjoyed the article! Regardless of whether this result stands up to scrutiny, I think this was a nice jumping off point to explain Pop III stars, and some of the interesting work JWST is doing here that people are probably not aware of (eg the programs mentioned at the end of the article).
I thought Pop III stars initially formed with only Hydrogen and Helium, but they promptly created heavier elements up to Iron within themselves through fusion.
> the star illuminating the surrounding gas with radiation
to mean that we're looking at the spectra of the gas around the star, or at best the corona or maybe the surface of the star. I think it's very difficult for photons in the core of a star to reach the surface, so we probably don't see light from the heavier interior elements often or at all.
At least that's my guess, I'm not an expert.
Just curious, when you mentally say that do you pronounce it: ~3 MEGA-years or ~3 MILLION-years
I realized that I keep flipping it back and forth and I can't settle on the 'correct' version. Like saying data vs data. =)
In addition, thanks for the comment. The information on Pop. III stars was great!
I would have thought the mere presence of a solar system excludes a star from Population III. Is that inaccurate?
Regrettably, the stars didn't show up in their telescopes with labels and histories attached.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_univers...
Sweet dreams
The thought of the universe sitting essentially idle for 10^86 years seems like it should feel wasteful. But why? Wasting what? Does our consciousness imbue the universe with any special quality?
It's all so weird. Even some of our most fantastical science fiction only projects out a few millennia.
Star Trek gets to the 31st century (or 3000s). Foundation is at least 12,000 years in the future. Dune takes place from about 23,000 to about 28,000. Warhammer 40k gets its name from the fact it takes place in the 40,000s. The Time Machine reaches to the 800,000s for the majority of its action. Red Dwarf is set the furthest at 3,000,000-ish.
All of which fall way short of even 1 billion years. The Andromeda and Milky Way galaxies aren't scheduled to meet up for another 5 billion.
We aren't even a blip.
10^100 years - 10^14 years = approx. 10^100 years
In the same way that:
10^6 - 10^3 = 1,000,000 - 1000 = 999,000 which is more or less approx. 10^6
Edit: Although this is one of those relatively uncommon situations where it doesn't really matter if you're off by 100 trillion years.
10^100 years minus 10^14 years is not 10^86 years. It is roughly 10^100 years.
So "The Last Question" is also basically asking - "how can we avoid the heat death of the universe?".
And phrased yet again differently: "Once all the stars burn out and all the uranium is fissioned and the coal burned and the universe is just a homogenous 5 degree kelvin soup of [I'm sure some physicist could tell me whatever fundamental particle it'll be that composes this soup] - what then? Is that just it?"
And once those stars are completely cold, you can start converting their mass into energy by dropping them into black holes, piece by piece.
And once you dropped all matter you could into black holes you could live off merging black holes.
And once you merged black holes you could live off of the black hole radiation until all black holes evaporate.
But this would be if the Universe wasn't expanding at a growing rate. If the Universe is truly expanding at an ever accelerating pace there will come a Big Rip which will cause every fundamental particle to get further from all other particles at speeds faster than light. And then matter as we know it will cease to exist.
How? From what frame?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_the_universe
We can already observe this phenomenon happening at large scale. Our observable universe shrinks as galaxies effectively accelerate away from us faster than the speed of light (i.e. the space between us and them expands faster than the speed of light). Whether this phenomenon is inevitable at a local scale, especially an atomic scale, is unclear, AFAIU. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip But in principle, IIUC, our own bodies are experiencing this effect right now. For now it's beyond miniscule, but slowly accelerating. This tiny local expansion and acceleration, summed over cosmic scales, is ostensibly how galaxies far enough apart can move away from each other faster than the speed of light. Fundamentally it's the continuation of the Big Bang.
What you will see is a slowing, red-shifting, darkening image of everything else as it speeds away from you asymptotically reaching speed of light until space between any two particles starts expanding so fast that no radiation can reach anything anymore and each particle forever lives in its own universe.
Of course we don't know that because we really don't understand how the universe is built and this is just our faulty formulas extrapolated way more than we can reasonably support with our experimental data.
The entropy of your heart is very low: if we swap a cubic centimetre of heart containing the mitral valve for a cubic centimetre of the wall of the right atrium, you'll very quickly die. The entropy of the air around you is much higher: we can take a cubic centimetre of air from near your left nostril and swap it with a cubic centimetre of air from near your right nostril, and you probably would not notice.
We can repeat this volume-swapping process as a way of comparing entropy in various places and at various scales. For two comparable swaps, the one that causes the greater "damage" is the one with the lower entropy.
The entropy of empty space outside galaxy clusters is enormous: we can swap cubic megaparsecs of that around without making an appreciable difference to any astrophysical observables. The metric expansion of space keeps creating more such space. That's where most of the universe's entropy will be found: new empty space.
The entropy of black holes is also enormous. The "no-hair" condition means that a very short time after we throw things into them, black holes relax into a state where we cannot tell if what was thrown in had high entropy (gas, dust, other black holes) or low entropy (stars, space probes). All that's left for an outside observer of a black hole is (in order of difficulty in measuring) its position, linear and angular momentum, mass, one or more charges like the electric charge, Hawking radiation, and possibly some other radiation (all of which forms its macroscopic observables). A black hole would "hide" whether the 100kg of additional mass it recently gained was an astronaut or a blob of atomic hydrogen. A large black hole does not tell us how many black holes fell into it in the past, nor what their masses, momenta, or charges may have been. Its macroscopic observables are tremendously insensitive to its microscopic state. Black holes therefore have very high entropy.
So as black holes form, collide, and grow hierarchically, global entropy also increases over time.
> homogenous 5 degree kelvin soup
The metric expansion of space dilutes all matter. On current trends the energy density at every point will tend towards zero in the far future, and in the very far future will be dominated by radiation originating near the cosmic horizon through a process comparable to Hawking radiation.
Measuring temperature is tricky, but if we use some sort of thermometer made of ordinary matter which gets warmed up by electromagnetic radiation then gently floating in deep extragalactic space that thermometer would report about 2.7 kelvins, mostly driven by interactions with the cosmic microwave background. The reported temperature will drop over time, falling to less than 1 kelvin in about a hundred billion years and to yoctokelvins in about a trillion years. At about the trillion-years-from-now mark, on current trends, the cosmic microwave background will be colder than the horizon radiation, so there is a temperature floor for measurements of electromagnetic radiation.
(There are other things one could in principle use to generate a local temperature reading that continues to fall even further into the future).
> whatever fundamental particle it'll be that composes this soup
It's a very thin gas of very-long-wavelength photons.
This is all with the gently-floating-themometer being at rest in the comoving "cosmological" coordinates and consequently seeing the same temperature in every direction. An observer in constant linear motion against those coordinates ("boosted") will see half its sky warmer and the opposite half colder, and an ultraboosted observer could get quite toasty from the warm side of the "dipole anisotropy". Additionally, a strongly accelerated observer may see other particle species during the acceleration ("Unruh radiation").
Finally,
> And any action you take to decrease local entropy still actually increases it in total.
At cosmological scales, the impact of any sort of local structure or organization at the scale of even a large galaxy cluster ("let's keep our Virgo supercluster stuff from falling into black holes") is nearly nothing compared to the entropy generated by the metric expansion of space.
> ... increases monotonically ...
Because empty space continues to expand, and nothing from outside can enter into our Hubble volume.
Finally, sci-fi enthusiasts could think along physical lines like: what if new empty space is only apparently empty (false vacuum decay), what if we can import new matter into our Hubble volume (wormholes to elsewhere/elsewhen), or what if we can cause the universe to recollapse (dark energy as a fifth force that can drive expansion or contraction of space). Any of those might conflict with your "any action you take to decrease local entropy still actually increases it in total" without offending theoretical thermodynamicists.
- entropy is not a measurable quantity
- there's some other place, besides the universe, where you might put all that problematic entropy
Cautious usage like this is probably a good habit to be in when talking with near-omnipotent computers.
Even if current theory about Universe is proven correct, it will most likely have no effect whatsoever on current human lifetimes. But doesn't preclude us from wanting to believe that the universe is eternal and constant, that there will be flashes of life and activity 10^50 years down the line.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum_decay
etc
It's a fun read.
Maybe it will turn out that many of the double star systems were created by intelligent life
Also, Ten Chiang's Exhalation is another short story about trying to stave off the entropy-death of the universe. [2]
1. https://astronomy.org/moravian/C00-Last%20Question.pdf (pdf)
Is `1 + -1` something or nothing? And what is `2 + -2`? Is it something, nothing, or also `1 + -1`? And I could continue like this proving every number you could possibly imagine can exist in some manifestation of nothing.
So perhaps we're just one of the infinite manifestations of nothing. From our subjective perspective we are something, but from the perspective of an objective observer nothing is really happening because all the subjective manifestations equate to nothing.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but this always made more sense to me than trying to understand why there is something and how long that something existed for. Perhaps it's both.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time...
which I first heard about in an interview with Alan Moore.
Even a before/after of "nothing" is still an extra complication that violates the principle. Not that Occam's razor is a law, but given something already as wieldy as everything, it's probably a prudent application.
There are no easy answers, and it's highly likely whatever answer is true is unknownable.
I.e., a perpetual universe must explain why in every direction we see a uniform background radiation which looks exactly like it's coming from a hot universe of the past. Occam's razor dictates that the big bang is the simpler (thus preferable) model, given evidences.
As another commenter posited, a space-time surface that is curved along itself, perpetually. It doesn't negate the big bang, or the great death, rather it relies on these two properties - but exclusively and reductively.
The original comment was regarding a cyclic universe - which I agreed with. Perhaps my use of the term "perpetual", while accurate - was confusing. I don't disagree with the big bang, we've observed it directly.
The nature of the universe is a mystery, replacing "universe" with "god" is just a tautology that doesn't get us anywhere.
As a default state of not knowing, one causes far more material harm in our current reality than the other.
i once disagree that monotheism, which values non-material things more than material ones, neccessarily leads to destruction of the material. orthodox Christianity for example values material and non-material, soul and body equally.
secondly i disagree that this argument is valid. since if you are in the viewpoint of "all that matters is the non-material" then wasting material does not harm the world. and simirarly, supposedly saving souls at the expense of the body is incomprehensible to the materialist. so the term "harm" understood in 2 disjunct ways per the 2 frameworks.
circling back to orthodoxy: it unites the "saving souls" and "saving forests" (understand well, it's not about trees, but the whole material creation clamped together in a catchphrase) attitudes in the mystery of Incarnation.
I'd add that if "god" is/was/will be made entirely of photons (and/or other massless particles), then "god" moves at the speed of light, which means "god" doesn't experience the passage of time[0]; so no beginning, no end and no in-between, just existence outside of "time."
This is, of course, a ridiculous idea. However, it does support the fantasy of an eternal being.
Then again, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."[1]
Which isn't to say that such claptrap as I suggest is true and, based on what we know now, it seems (at least to me) a ridiculous concept.
That said, our understanding of the universe(s) is woefully incomplete.
[0] https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/54162/how-does-a...
[1] http://www.shakespeare-online.com/quickquotes/quickquotehaml...
Edit: Used the correct conjunction.
Edit: looking through your other comments, I maybe misunderstood your statement here. first glance it very much sounded like the god-of-the-gaps argument to me.
https://arxiv.org/abs/2212.04476
It talks extensively about "He II", the astrophysics notation for singly-ionized helium (a helium atom with one electron removed; He+). That isn't notation for a helium isotope. I can't see anything in the paper mentioning isotopes, nuclear reactions, or anything in that direction. (?)
And this is a good thing! If 2He were bound, the pp fusion reaction would be much faster, our Sun would long since have burned out, and we would not be here.
Or maybe it’s a synthetic population III star, made for unknown purposes by a now-vanished civilization. You’re allowed to make up whatever you need to get the story going.
Allow them those abilities and you might as well be importing already inhabited worlds from wherever you like, which saves time.
Astronomers Say They Have Spotted
the Universe’s First Stars
Isn't the size of the universe potentially infinite?If that is the case, we can see only an infinite small fraction of the stars in the universe. Under that assumption, I find it hard to have a concept of what spotting the universe's first stars could mean.
The oldest stars among those that we can see?
Yes.
If I've understood the lectures correctly, time isn't really well-ordered, and on scales like this the deviation makes a substantial difference.
However, what we are looking at in cases like this is stars far enough away that the light took most of the age of the universe to reach us, so it's not unreasonable to call those stars (members of the set of) "the Universe’s First Stars".
The question is about the relationship between the age of the universe (well, after the big bang) and stars that came into existence afterwards. We have a pretty good idea how old the universe is, and with the universe expanding, light from the early days of the universe still makes it to earth from billions of light-years away.
But for similar reasons, unless some fundamental understanding of time and space changes, nothing outside the visible universe really matters.