What other aspects of life improvements have you seen with improving your skills in this domain?
Yes. Conversing with people requires some amount of empathy as you must consider someone else's words in order to be in a state of listening. It's not distinct from "real life". _It is_ your life.
> "... win you anything big"
It's just my impression, and I could be mistaken, but this sounds overly pragmatic. Living life this way leads to getting entrenched in local maxima. It's better to also consider what others want and find compromise. What you sacrifice in absolute immediate gains, you exchange for longer term possibilities and networking.
On the flip side, don't burden yourself with responsibilities that don't interest you, and don't compromise with people who won't appreciate it.
All that said, what I "won" is my social life and career which I am grateful for. To answer if it's anything "big" is all relative. It's a big deal to me. There's no need to be braggadocious. Life is what you make it.
You find a lot of people who suffer from severe social maladjustment and view life as a zero-sum game all over the place (I blame the rise of using game theory to model real situations without a finite turn limit). It's very rare you'll be able to "argue" these people into conceptualizing other humans as unique individuals, it pretty much always comes from problematic upbringings
I think there are people that for one reason or another can overcome this instinct and see a bigger picture of society.
And I think these groups generally coalesce for reinforcement and forms of ideological security. Then they give these groups names.
Well said. This is a frustration I find when giving interpersonal advice to highly analytical, technical folks. Very quickly they're eager to relate what they're experiencing back to mechanisms they're used to (min/max algorithms, video games strats, etc.), usually to their detriment. They're used to the pattern of 1) Gather evidence 2) Understand system 3) Apply actions to system. The art of interfacing with other humans is so profoundly different from any other activity we take part in, I think it's silly to allow the analytical side of our brains to have too much control. The best advice I've been able to give socially stunted engineers is just to think less, and rely more on instinct than on heuristic.
The most socialized, well liked, and gregarious people you remember from high school probably never read a self-help book or a Tips for Making Friends blogpost in their life. They followed their instincts and didn't think too much.
Maybe our basis for measurement is not capable of measuring the data present. Sort of like how when scanning something sometimes the resolution is just too low and thus discards data that is there but we don't see it.
Being able to sit quietly and let the other person speak hugely improved my ability to interject in ways that are relevant and actually increase engagement during conversation. That led to better relationships at home and at work, which led to a better marriage and more influence at work.
I found "Nonviolent Communication" to be a good starter book.
Glad you're working on it, it's probably one of the easiest social bad habits to 'fix' :)
You’re probably just not happy with the resident smart guy regardless of what he says. He could say anything and you’d be thinking “please shit the fuck up”.
As true power is “the capacity for effect” (if it is not effective, it is not powerful); listening and communicating well makes you more effective as a human being at everything, even when to keep one’s mouth shut!
Better relationships, higher quality personal and professional conversations, are only beginnings.
Do not be one of these people who only think in terms of the utility of others. Being a charming douche isn’t an “improvement”. Listening and communicating well are a qualitative human skill, not just “useful.”
To this day I still see "conversing" as a skill. It may require a conscious effort. Listening is not a problem and introverts are generally very empathic, but being a part of the conversation is harder. I can feel tired after a party for example, like I was working all day long. But I also enjoy it a lot: it feels wonderful to genuinely connect with people around me, as long as I can recharge afterwards. Familiar situations are much easier, new situations or meeting new people is harder. But all the more important to be able to communicate well: cannot imagine what it would be like to meet a new boss, or a new person on my team, would I not be able to listen to them well and express my thoughts clearly.
Life becomes easy mode. What's even more interesting is that it's a circular loop, because it's easy mode, they do people magic easier, which makes easy mode all over again.
Here is a list of observable and repeatable things I have witnessed multiple times:
* Everyone smiles at you, they are genuinely happy to see you (even strangers)
* You can always get help for anything at any time
* What you say, even if it's wrong will be accepted as true (unless you are wrong too frequently...but people magic people don't do that)
* Everyone will gravitate towards you no matter where you are
* A huge amount of choice when it comes to partners or choice of friends. (I joke with my SO that if we divorced, she has about 15 people that would date her instantly)
* People go out of their way to please you almost to an irrational level (things like acquaintances giving you $50 for something random, waitresses telling you what to avoid, cashiers telling you if something is good or not)
* Everyone opens up at you, again to a deep level. My SO knows so many "secrets" from so many people, things their partners don't know, things that they have barely accepted
* Raises and promotions all the time. This is cyclical, everyone likes you, you get promoted, customer/clients/coworkers like you enough to tell your boss, repeat
I can keep going.
I'm an introvert socializing is hard at times, but I won't lie people with true people magic play on a different level. They almost bypass all constraints of society with ease. It's all because they know how to talk and listen to people. People magic people do one more thing though, they have the ability to make you feel special. It's done in a genuine manner...that's how they get you.
As someone who struggles with human interactions, I found the following epiphanies to have caused the largest improvements:
- Talking about something boring you both did together is much better than talking about something awesome you did alone.
- Tone of voice and facial expression are more important than the words you are saying.
Friendship, love, business and having an overall better time, day in, day out.
Improving my understanding of the social interaction between people and how to become a more enjoyable person is the most important thing I accomplished in my life.
Do you have some tips on this journey? Is there some specific approach you followed, a book, or something else?
I can identify a lot of my problems and see how much impact they have, but struggle with actually making improvements.
A good start is to cultivate the ability to stop talking, relax and listen.
I don’t ask the doctor’s administrative assistant about their day in order to get preferential treatment, that’s just a perk that sometimes comes with it. I try to come from a place of genuine interest in others, even though that can be hard to do.
[1] I don’t mean this as a dig or even a negative, I’m just referring to where your focus is in a given situation. Are you focused on yourself, or others?
https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/jim-collins-2/
Long story short: Happiness is derivable mainly either through relationships or transactions (can read this as opportunities you create).
The problem: Deriving happiness through transactions doesn't scale beyond you and your abilities and your time. Deriving happiness through relationships does scale.
Coming back to your question: conversation and listening skills are relevant to both. There is more certainty in using these skills towards transactions (think sales). But you should be putting these skills towards relationship building as well. Mainly because other people may be (and often are for strong relationships) happy to help you out for nothing or very little in return mainly because of a trust that if you're able to you will help them for some future endeavors / dilemmas. This can be seen as an investment towards leverage (think sales growth).
The podcast doesn't take the view I wrote here. The podcast conversation is more interpersonally oriented in its view, but the conversation is oriented towards CEOs.
Can you elaborate on how that works? I'm curious.
People will bring up your name in positive situations, which leads to new connections to you without effort on your part.
1. meeting my wife
2. befriending great people
3. Probably a big factor getting my first engineering job
The "trick", at least for me, is to genuinely care about people when talking to them. It's tough at the start, just like trying to use atrophied muscles for the first time. For a while being caring absolutely drained me, but you do get better at it apparently.
In a 15 minute demo we spend 10 minutes finding the prospects key pain point. Then the demo is 4 minutes of showing how our product makes their exact/specific pain go away. And then 1 minute of signing them up onto a 7 day free trial.
One truth is that sometimes, you'll have to get used to lots of different people (some who may not like you for all sorts of reasons) and learning to work around that has really helped me collaborate with people who a hard to get on with. Putting a goal in a conversation mentally has really helped with this.
Quick tip: movies, dramas, and sitcoms are a terrible reference. So is r/relationship_advice unless you're looking for what not to do.
"Ego is the Enemy" by Ryan Holiday established a great baseline mindset to be in.
"Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High" is the most applicable book. It explains in detail how other people interpret your actions, and how to approach a delicate conversation with care.
Some in person training helps; I quite enjoyed the sessions my company provided from Life Labs.
Mostly you'll learn being a good listener isn't only shutting up and letting them talk, it's also actively considering what they're saying and asking the right questions.
Some recommended books: how to win friends and influence people (carnegie), crucial conversations, critical conversations, and some specific skills I picked up along the way like listening even beyond the point when it hurts, etc etc. More at my web site (in profile) and in personal notes if interested.
ps: And honesty and the Golden Rule are important!
Because I am more analytical than natural about this (despite decades of effort), I had to make myself a checklist or process list, a list of steps to follow depending on how the conversation goes and what happens. Has been invaluable to me at some times. Fortunately my wife is capable of understanding when I get to the point of needing to use it, and I think she has seen it helps me/us, so that's very good when I remember the things I have studied & decided. The checklist helps when memory and clear thinking break down.
But it takes real hard work & long-repeated practice, which requires commitment and caring for the other as for oneself (or more, sometimes). And is so worthwhile.
Just being observant is a big deal. And genuinely caring about the well-being of others. Some good advice I heard was "get yourself out of the way" (though in a different/better context). So often, just be quiet and let the other person talk, maybe ask questions occasionally for clarification.
People are complex, versatile and very unique beings that can teach you so much if you listen to them. Not to mention wanting to know more about the people you are bonding with.
Sure, I have met lot's of self-centered people that expect me to fight for their attention but it is their loss. What is the point in talking if you are not actively listening? You already know what you know. Just write in a dairy or something.
They are, but they learn, often through school, that bringing up facts is how you get praise and appreciation. Then they try to apply this to social situations and are confused why they fail. They conclude that THEY aren't interesting enough, so they double down.
I was this way for a long time (into my 30s), and I couldn't figure out why I had trouble making friends for the life of me.
Wanting to get praise and appreciation from teachers is very foreign to me. I didn't have to put any effort into school because it came pretty easy to me, so I did not.
I mostly wanted to impress my peers. I felt being too intelligent was more of a flaw to hide than a asset. I learned pretty early that people don't appreciate it if you make them feel intellectually inferior.
Might be because I have a working-class background so intellectual accomplishments aren't really that valued in my world to begin with.
I guess you are from a background that would call themselves "middle-class"?
Then I discovered programming in 7th grade and that set my path for the next two decades.
I totally agree this is bullshit, but I feel like learning to hear what people are actually saying, not what you expect them to say, and being able to clear up misunderstandings/miscommunication is even more important.
"So you are worried if this data model is too complex, performance will suffer? And you're doubtful if our product can help without slowing down your existing delivery SLAs."
By understanding them they trust you to respect their wishes and represent them when they're not in the room.
Whenever they think about the things that worry or stress them the most, they'll think of you (this is a good thing when you are essentially paid on being thought of.)
And if you can address not just the actual issues but how they feel about them, the word of mouth happens all by itself. Sometimes they even invite you to their kids' birthdays!
Professional empathy is amazingly effective.
It has won me multiple work promotions as it makes me better at dealing with other developers on my team, management, other teams, customers and end users.
Listening and asking the right questions are really underrated skills, and improving your interpersonal skills is just as important for a career as technical ones.
This is maybe less true in a more pure, academic/engineering setting where it's all numerics and formulae, but even then, all the thinking work is done by humans, whose thoughts and feelings matter.
I think most of all: It's easier to understand reasons why people might be doing/not doing something if you've taken the time and effort to TRULY listen to them beforehand.
As a sidenote, if interacting with people is about winning/losing for you, there might be some rather serious issues for you to reflect on in how you perceive, build, and maintain relationships with other people.
Good luck!
Success in these areas is like 95% social and 5% technical.
If any one single thing has been responsible for my success (contractor, six-fig monthly) it's not that the hill just knows me so well. It's that I know the problems institutions and large corporations face, I know how a lot of them think and how they try to solve them, and crucially: I know how to *actually* solve those problems and get paid.
Unless you are meaning within the universities themselves? Then sure. That's not really what I meant though. The vast majority of students want to graduate and leave to industry somewhere.
You try to listen to them, and communicate in such a way so as to create a win-win situation.
By really listening and empathizing with them, you are able to ask the right questions so they give you extra information about their situation, which you can use to understand what they want and explore potential solutions.
People aren't always aware on the moment of exactly what they want or need, so they can't articulate it perfectly. With understanding the situation, you can usually propose a solution that works for both parties. So, in that sense, I'm sure people still like you, as long as you up hold a respectful and communicatively open attitude.
So I don't think people would have a negative opinion of you if you have used the practices from the book in your negotiation.
A great example from Conscious Business (I think) was a salesperson asking for a salary increase of like $20k or something, but it turned out they were worried about the wear and tear on their car and wanted to buy a new car to handle the local travel requirements. Instead, they added a company car to the offer, and everyone was happy.
It makes you realize that everything is not about you (nothing actually is), and shows how you can use empathy to stop taking things personally but really understand what people are trying to say when they're talking to you.
Have you ever spoken to someone and they give you answers that are barely related to what you just said? It's annoying right? You don't really want to speak with those people.
But honestly, I find that most people only REALLY need to learn how to listen. Once you actually listen to what people say before you start putting your answer together will help you learn more and let's the other person know you're actually interested in what they're saying. All other aspects of social interaction will then come on there own. If it's a subject you're not overly interested in, then the conversation will be boring for both sides and that's completely fine too. Trying to be interested in everything everyone says will burn you out and won't help you in the long run.
Just try and be yourself and always authentic.
If you're looking for some guidance on transitioning from on-site to remote work, I recently came across a really helpful blog article that I think you'll find valuable: https://www.ratherlabs.com/post/transitioning-from-on-site-t...
And here's the real magic - often by listening, the speaker will develop a positive notion of you by virtue of the fact that you listened that will enable you to have conversations that would have otherwise been DOA, because now you've created an atmosphere of trust.
I can say that it is not pleasant to be around people when the conversation feels forced or awkward. And further that there really aren't any conversational or listening 'skills'. You just talk and listen. If you go read the very best and most selling books on the topic, they all share the same, basic, boring advice. Relax, exercise basic decency such as avoiding commenting on peoples' appearances, fake it until you make it if you have to, and if you're slightly awkward, that's not a big deal. If you've read one of these books, then you've read them all, there's nothing about the basic act of relating to another human being that isn't both discoverable and can be found to be pleasurable.
The two big barriers are fear and ego. All relating 'skill' comes down to dealing with these two things. And to answer your question, there's an immense amount of life improvement that can be had by working on your ego and fear. Instead of taking passive approaches to dealing with interpersonal problems, you can develop assertive ones. You can ask for help more easily. You can stop trying to hold it all up yourself. You can start building up a network of friends, both the sort you go out of your way to spend time with, and also the sort that you share pleasant conversations with whenever you run into each other.
And then finally you can start fixing problems in your relationships. Start having dates without fear, if you're unattached. Share ideas with friends about how to make your spousal relations better. Couples dates. Have neighbors around to help spread the childcare load with so you can go check in with each other and rekindle the romance.
But it starts with the basic here and now act of being present in the moment, caring about the person in front of you, and doing your best to make it a pleasant interaction. Everything else builds on that basic feeling other people have when they're interacting with you, do I like this? If so, then there's always something new on the horizon.
But if you let cynicism, fear and ego get in the way, then people aren't going to enjoy the ordeal of interacting with you. You'll gradually find yourself feeling excluded from the community. And none of these social possibilities will ever find their way to you.
This is absolutely not true. You just happened to learn them intrinsically. This is why most people make terrible language partners/teachers.
You are right about most of the books, but that's because they find some technique or tool that seems like an aha to them, so they write a book. The real skills of conversation are at the how and why levels.
Everything you write rings true to me now, but as someone who had to learn these skills explicitly, you sound like you don't get why people might have trouble with these things. Which is fine, but don't go to write a "why don't you just ..." post. It feels very dismissive.
The list of things you wrote sounds like a bunch of unrelated and random advice to people who don't understand HOW to relate to others yet.
If you took a skill-based approach years ago and discovered a lot of hows and whys, that’s great for you. You’ve earned something special. My friend min-maxed online dating, and it resulted in a horrendous marriage that only lasted a few years and he never gets to see his daughter.
I can see how my words might be dismissive of this approach, and I can’t deny that there is a slight amount of it there. But the reality of the situation is that humans are hardwired for connecting with each other, and it’s a million times easier to lean into this billion year old circuitry, than to try to reinvent that wheel. You absolutely can reinvent it, but don’t let the siren song of mastery distract you from good enough and getting better over time.
My counter is that it IS possible to learn these things. Still, it is important to keep digging deeper beyond techniques to find these hows and whys (I don't have a good description of how to do that, though. It took me 15 years and continues); otherwise, you end up in the situation your friend did.
You are lucky. You seem blissfully unaware of how badly messed up "built-in" skills can get when ignoring (or actively countering) those skills is vital to surviving until adulthood.
You are right. It is about letting go of fear and ego. But I was raised by my single father, who his father emotionally neglected. My father has the emotional maturity of a middle schooler with a large amount of unresolved trauma.
As a result, I was severely emotionally and instrumentally neglected as a child (I had food, shelter, clothing, and hugs [that was the extent of my father's understanding of being a loving parent], but that was it) and suffered CPTSD caused by uncontrolled alcoholism and parentification (as a child, I was forced to ignore my needs and emotions to care for my father). I never saw what a functional and healthy relationship (family or friend) looked like until I was an adult. By then, I had lost the ability to be unguarded or trusting to others, except in unemotional contexts like school or work. So I could only observe the most public and visible interactions between people.
So tell me how "You just talk and listen" would help me?
You are not alone. Both of the parents I grew up with had extremely abusive childhoods. My mom's abuse under her stepmother was so bad and visible the whole neighborhood chipped in to give her a break. My step-dad's step-dad's chicanery directly led to his little brother's death. I live with a kid whose mom committed suicide, and his dad blamed him for it. My sister's ex-husband had to take care of his siblings from a very early age. (parentified) Her second ex-husband's brother committed suicide. I managed to escape major damage because my parents made damn sure to not replicate the cycle.
Out of all of these people, only one of them felt the need to create a logical system to improve their lives with by, that's the kid whose mom committed suicide. It did not help him significantly. I am having to be the father figure to him that he lacked. They all eventually grew up to be healthy, productive adults, if somewhat emotionally stunted, if only to my observation, and the kid will eventually. None of them will become less emotionally stunted by gamifying their social skills.
> So tell me how "You just talk and listen" would help me?
Looking back, one of my biggest influences was this guy that was assigned to 'babysit' me while I was a screw-up in the military. I was exceptionally angry at the military and I simply didn't care anymore. So they had me follow him around. He struck me as being exceptionally friendly and social. His manner with women was easy, I really felt like I could relax around him. He assuredly did not treat human interaction as a skill to learn and I would think back to our times together years later when I was trying to learn 'pick up artist' skills from David DeAngelo and the like.
There's nothing any keyboard warrior can do to actually help someone that's hurting as bad as you were. I know this. All I can do is assert the truth, no matter how hard that truth is to hear. I cannot offer you the same experience I just related to you of my military friend. He was 'just talk and listen' as a living example. I strive to offer it to anyone and everyone who sees in me an example to follow.
Perhaps the advice should be adjusted to: "Just talk and listen, and if you have trouble just doing this, look to others to show you how"
> None of them will become less emotionally stunted by gamifying their social skills.
Who said anything about gamifying social skill?
I'm talking about:
* Learning to talk to people For example, perspective-taking or learning about the 5 levels of conversation [1].
* Learn to understand your own emotions For example, Why you don't feel anything [2]
* Learn to trust other people For example, Why authenticity/vulnerability is vital for connecting with others [3]
I'm sad that your only experiences with people attempting to improve their social skills were cliched or in the PUA community, but there ARE real resources out there that will help.
I'm happy for you, and I'm glad you're trying to share what you've learned, but again "get lucky by being in close proximity to someone who knows this stuff" is not a repeatable strategy.
[1] https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/five-levels-communication... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pQBdZ3RdfA [3] https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability
Of course it is. Everywhere has highly social people you can watch and learn from.
My apologies. I really only try to have rational conversations on the Internet, particularly in places like Hacker News. I do not know you or how best to empathize with you. Everybody is very different. After years of trying, I've learned to let go of the need. Your examples of resources are interesting. Had you led with those first instead of attacking my capacity for empathy, I would have understood better what you meant by skills.
I wish you a pleasant Wednesday.
Also, I worded the second bit badly. It is repeatable (perhaps even for most people), but it is not a blanket strategy.
It requires letting go of a fair bit of fear and distrust of others to get to the point where I could have implemented this. And during that time, the people I attracted and spent time with were the ones who responded to my cautious and closed-off personality. In my twenties, I would literally be spooked if someone got mad at me. I just couldn't process it.
As you said in your initial comment:
> I can say that it is not pleasant to be around people when the conversation feels forced or awkward.
So my social skills actively reduced the odds I would meet people like you. In fact, my best friend for years eventually stopped talking to me because his now wife thought like you and couldn't stand being around me.
Any discussion, particularly online, is going to involve misinterpretation. You're not in front of me, I can't use my usual tools of mirroring, tone, emoting somatically, observing your reaction to each statement, etc etc etc. This is online. It only works if you assume good intent.
Now that you've explained your position adequately, I can see where you're coming from. I merely wish that you could have simply, in the very first reply where you were articulating your position, given examples of skill approaches that have helped you personally. This means I have to consider it carefully because, again, your lived experience is to be validated and believed. And maybe taken my own personal sharing as in the same vein of trying to articulate towards why I feel the way I do.
Now I'll say that I've learned a great deal from this discussion, and thank you for participating in it with me. I can certainly see now that there are resources that can bring people from a very negative place to a reasonable one quickly. I'm glad you were able to share enough personal experience to help me to see your point of view.
Unfortunately, in my experience, the process contributes greatly to the quality of the result.
So I thank you for continuing to act with and assume good intent until we reached this point.
Thank goodness I started on it before 2020 because we about to go through a lot of challenges together!
No, quite the opposite unfortunately. The taxes are higher and you're not eligible for anything a normal employee would be (covid payments, state pension etc)...
The government are gradually outlawing the process now (IR35 pushes the tax rate up to about 80%). Back in the 80s, it was apparently an excellent deal but not anymore...
Still, it's good money if you can find a role.
Improving skills that improve relationship building have great downstream effects.
I have walked back from fully cutting them off, but they have too many issues for me to spend time attempting to form a meaningful connection with them.
(ps to anyone: thoughtful comments appreciated with any downvotes)
>the Ability to connect with anyone.
>disdain for those who lack the sentience.
P.S.: I feel that the name of the book is deceptive. The book touches on a wholistic perspective of communication.
How we listen/converse doesn't tell you anything at all about how we "treat" or "empathize" with people in "real life" situations. I listen/converse in a radically different manner when I'm paid to do so. Being skillful in these departments can supercharge sociopathic manipulative persuasion.
I'm not sure how (or why) you are distinguishing between listening/conversing and "real life situations".
We are always unavoidably influencing and being influenced by everything going on around us (and within us). You cannot help but do it, so you may as well do it skillfully. You might even choose to do it ethically. It affects everything that involves interactions with human beings, so for at least a while longer that's going to be "damned near everything".
Externally, people with high listening skill are perceived as more mature, professional, reliable and trustworthy.
Quick hack for improving listening: just have a notebook and pencil with you all the time. When you talk with a coworker, make it a habit to pull out the notebook and start scratching notes. It might feel a bit "orthopedic" at first, but you will notice that most people don't mind at all. Writing reinforces memory and makes it more difficult to "tune out". I don't write full sentences, most of the time it's just one or two words which would make no sense for anyone but me. I find is an adequate mid-term (~1 week) memory storage space. "What was that ticket number we talked about last Tuesday? (go back a few pages in the notebook) Oh, yeah XO-7435". This is especially easy to do in a remote setting.
Being able to interpret body language and tone is also part of "listening". Those two can modify the same words to mean literally the opposite of what they sound like in a "neutral" tone. If you suspect you have difficulties here (a lot of folks who get into computers have difficulties with this) there's training courses for this kind of thing. Therapy will also work in some cases.
Conversation skills is the opposite - you produce more bits of info, and the bits you produce are of better quality. It's both more efficient and more effective. If you are an introvert or just don't enjoy smalltalk, consider that improving your speech will allow you to talk less with the people you don't want to spend a lot of time talking with. You will be able to move in, deliver the package, and move out.
Effectively communicating with others involves adapting your discourse to the audience. That's where the "empathy" part comes in. When a taxi driver asks me about what I work with, I don't give him the same explanation I give to my mother, and that is different from what I tell people who know about computers.
From the outside: if you communicate better you will also be perceived as more mature and professional. It's a basic quality for a leader. Your name will pop naturally in conversations like "we need a new tech lead, who should we promote from inside the team?".
So yes, it is definitively true that listening and communicating help.
I am afraid I don't have a quick hack for more effective outwards communication. Listening is a good first step that you can improve on your own, but going in the other direction requires ... practice. That requires interaction with other people. I suggest you start improving your communication skills by contacting people who share your same interests. Do you have any hobbies? Are you interested on a programming language? See if there's a local group you can attend, or create your own group if there isn't any.
Every single good thing in my life has come from these skills.
These skills begin and end with caring about your impact on other people. Without this care, or the desire to leave people better than before they met you, these skills are vacuous at best, but more likely psychopathic.