80/20 Aluminum T-slot Building Systems – Build your Idea | Hacker News Reader

80/20 Aluminum T-slot Building Systems – Build your Idea

8020.net

333 pointsthunderbong140 comments

If 80/20 is new to you, then you might also be unfamiliar with its steel channeled cousin, Unistrut. https://www.unistrut.us/

Unistrut is used extensively in the US to build support structures for electrical switchgear and process equipment. You can get grades suitable for outdoor and corrosives exposure.

Unistrut is the Kleenex term, there are a number of work-alike / fit-alike systems.

Then for round tube, there is Kee Klamp: https://keesystems.com/

Good to keep alternatives in mind. I have found unistrut significantly cheaper when you want to build larger scale or stronger stuff. It's not super versatile, but can still do a lot.

I've used Unistrut and adjacent (flex-craft) more than 80/20. They all have good use cases.

I love the Kee Klamp system (or just 'steigerbuis' as we call it here in NL). I built furniture with it in the past, and also a bicycle caravan (https://www.theredpanther.org).

If you have a hood welding hood with forced air, EMT is fairly easy to weld with a gas shielded MIG welder. Makes very rigid structures.

For lighter duty, there is maker pipe: https://makerpipe.com/. it's nice because the bulk of the system is electrical conduit, which I think is one of the cheapest type of beam/tube available.

Hmm, especially handy given how simple emt is to bend (hand tool available from any hardware store that sells emt)

There is definitely an art to making accurate bends, especially in more than one plane! I have never had more respect for the conduit work electricians do every day with EMT than when I tried to learn how to do it myself.

DIY is a great way to learn what you're willing pay someone else to do a job faster and better.

Not sure why this is getting downvoted, it's true. I have been going down DIY rabbit holes and learning about a lot of stuff that I wouldn't want to DIY. I always thought that list included "AC/electrical work" but, actually, not really, except maybe the service panel itself. If anything, the work I've done is significantly more likely to be up to (current) code than what was already here...

Once upon a time DIYed a large tube structure (solar arch for a sailboat) and quickly realized why software is so cost effective. I'm so used to creating big structures with a few keystrokes. In the real world doing metal work, I would try to do stuff as quickly as I could but you can't escape the fact that sanding or polishing, etc... it all takes soooo much time! Just cutting the fish-mouths in the tubes to have them fit into each other took an eternity, and drilling holes in stainless steel is no fun.

For me, the simplest example was changing the oil on my truck; I could do it, but found it more than reasonable to pay someone else $20 to do it.

For other cases, sometimes I wouldn't mind paying someone else a good market rate -- drywall work comes to mind -- but the mental overhead of contracting and scheduling is currently high enough that I end up just doing the unpleasant work I'd rather pay someone else to.

Kee Klamp for EMT, cool.

I like this stuff - thanks for sharing

> electrical conduit, which I think is one of the cheapest type of beam/tube available.

There have been pretty serious PVC conduit shortages for the last year or two. In construction projects I've worked on, they've had to uprate to (much more expensive) fibreglass conduit as PVC was simply not available.

parent post is not taking about pvc, they're talking about EMT.

I knew about 80/20 but this is the first I've heard of unistrut. Thanks.

FYI, most hardware stores will have a selection in their electrical aisle, along with basic threaded connections for 1/2”, 3/8”, and 1/4” bolts, angle connectors, etc.

Another extremely flexible lighter-weight structural tube fitting standard that’s widely available is the 1.5” tubing used for drum racks. Not sure if there’s a broader standard that the musical instrument industry is building off there.

Was pleasantly surprised recently to find that the same diameter of fittings was used in an adjustable monitor stand, so if you wanted to mount a cowbell above your dual screen mount the fittings are easily combined.

Depends on the job. Cutting unistrut is far more challenging than 80/20, it weighs a lot, and the connectors are expensive because they are engineered to bear significant loads. 80/20 is a little pricier per foot but it is much, much easier to work with for applications that don't need to withstand a nuclear strike.

Not sure if the throat is large enough but a portable electric bandsaw would be able to chew through the unistrut steel and in the jobs I've used them on they are precise enough.

An angle grinder with a cutoff wheel similarly has no issues.

It can be a fire/noise/dust hazard, you wouldn’t want to do it in a grassy field or server room, but for any construction site it’s easy peasy.

Portable electric bandsaw is the tool of choice for most electricians who use Unistrut.

I used to work in construction and the electrical trade. I’ve shown so many people the power of this seemingly esoteric item in the electrical aisle at Home Depot. It’s so flexible and you disassemble it with one or two tools depending on which fasteners you use.

I just put the metal strut in my Honda Ridgeline truck as rails to attach tie down stuff to. Hopefully it works well for me.

Got details? I have a ridgeline as well and was curious about doing something like this with a track.

I bought a 10ft long piece of the strut from Lowes. I bought the slotted type, but I should have gotten the one without slots, the springs on the strut washers get stuck on the slots when sliding them. I cut the strut to length, I think it was 4ft. I bought longer bolts too, I think they are M6 and I bought 1 or 1.25 inches. I bought 1/4 inner diameter 1.5 inch outer diameter washers to attach with the strut nuts. I attached some D rings to those. I can answer more questions if you have them. I drive a 2022 Ridgeline for reference.

Also open builds v-slot is excellent https://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-linear-rail-1/

Unistrut (“strut”) also has trolleys that roll in the track (1). Very useful for overhead roller systems in a workshop. Be very mindful of fastener clearances if installing one.

I don’t have the handheld, portable bandsaw (“portaband”) that tradespeople usually use to cut strut, so I use a grinder with a cutoff wheel (noisy) or a sawzall with a metal cutting blade (more civilized).

(1) https://unistrutstore.com/1-58-metal-framing/unistrut-p2750....

>Unistrut is the Kleenex term, there are a number of work-alike / fit-alike systems.

This triggered a 20 year old memory. A former colleague used to refer to unistrut as kindorf. He was the only person I've ever met in 15+ years of engineering and construction to call it something besides Unistrut. It still bothers me.

Also check out Misumi. They will cut it to length, tap, drill holes, etc all just by configuring it woth part numbers. They Lso have pre made assemblies, you can get it in black anodized, and the pricing can't be beat, it's an order of magnitude less than other suppliers when you get the customizations.

Also check out Vention, they'll design and build a whole machine for you using the stuff

Misumi is the only answer if you are building something with precision. Also checkout accu.co.uk.

Accu are fantastic. They also have European sites and maybe more? Always my goto if we need weird screws and they will also make to order if you need something special.

Edit : I would guess McMaster fills this role in the US, so it's nice to have an alternative here. Also they have a lot of non-standard lengths and things like tiny M2s or even smaller. We used them all the time for machine vision products (cameras often use M2 frame mounts, lenses with itty bitty grub screws).

A coworker of mine told me about Misumi last week. They're pretty amazing and the prices are surprisingly great.

They're pretty common in the 3D print industry. Also check out IGUS, who also do a lot of custom rails/rods. They're probably most well known for their plastic Drylin bearings. The prices are also reasonable for what you can get.

I've been meaning to get some stuff from Makerbeam too, who make 10x10 mm extrusion at a good price (not sure who else makes small width stuff). Oozenest in the UK has a good range.

Many years ago, they had a deal running where if you were a new customer they were willing to send you something like $150 worth of materials for the cost of shipping. I bought some 1515 extrusions to build my second 3D Printer, along with some linear rail. It was really great.

A former employer swore by FramingTech: https://www.framingtech.com/

Their super power was that you could ship them a SolidWorks file with assembly steps marked, then they would bag all of the parts by step (i.e. for step 1 in the build book, use all the parts in bag 1). Also, if you throw money at them you can get it shipped next day, which is a good option to have.

I've used openbuilds before. They sell all sorts of aluminum rails, wheels, brackets and motors. And they have a community of designers posting builds for all sorts of machines.

https://openbuildspartstore.com/

We've used Misumi for a small-scale project and the quality / price ratio was quite good. Would order again from them.

I've been looking at aluminium extrusion videos on youtube for the past half-hour trying to work out how the dies have a circular void in the middle.

Turns out it's a second die (called a mandrel) that locks into the main die (called a cap), and the hot pressurised aluminium flows around the mandrel then forms back into one piece as it goes through the cap.

It's the same as pasta, but with different temperatures and tolerances!

The coolest part (pun intended) is how they cool the semi-melted aluminum after extrusion, in long tanks of water, that have no sides, the sides are made from water pressure made from directing water flow.

Please provide a link, this sounds insane

This is the best I could find quickly: https://m.alibaba.com/product/1600594223702/Quench-Cooling-T...

Same as the play-dough tube extruder.

These types of aluminum extrusions have been used for many years (at least in Europe) in many industries to build all kinds temporary to more permanent structures [1]. Also the reason they ended up in 3d printers as they have been used in other CNC type setups.

Oddly enough the Wikipedia article is very thing and not even available in English [2]

[1] https://www.kanya.com/fileadmin/_processed_/3/1/csm_kanya-ag...

[2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstruktionsprofil (German)

I think this is the equivalent page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-slot_structural_framing

I just merged them in wikidata

I wonder how much outfits like Send Cut Send are eating into 80/20's market share. I know I've used laser cut sheet stock for a few projects that probably would have used aluminium extrusions in the past.

Probably not as much as Chinese extrusions have. You can find some pretty cheap and compatible aluminum extrusion on the internet these days. Ebay used to be the best, but now there are dedicated websites and everything. Extrusions have never been cheaper

Are you sure? I've been looking at getting myself a sim racing rig made of aluminium extrusion and prices have skyrocketed in the past couple of years.

I'd love to get some links on those cheaper extrusion websites you're talking about.

I doubt much if we think decades. Sheet stock has always been used in conjunction to modular systems such as these, via manual or CNC machining (slots and holes are trivial to do). The advantage of a modular system such as these is the ability to build a scaffold with only straight cuts and a few off-the-shelf connectors.

In most cases you need a sheet metal press to form a scaffold out of _just_ sheet metal.

For anything structural (ie: when thickness matters), the price of custom-cut sheet stock is not that competitive anymore.

The price of machine-cut metal sheet has dropped quite a bit the last years though. I think it's filling a new niche, not really replacing the space of modular extrusions.

In Japanese hardware stores last year I spotted a new type of aluminum extrusion called "G-fun" by the "SUS" company, which is vastly superior in terms of rigidity and interconnection options:

https://g-fun.jp/

However, I can't find it anywhere in North America.

(Addendum: If you're wondering what makes it more rigid than traditional X-shape extrusions, it's partly because the joints are well designed, but mostly because the torsional rigidity of a thin-walled section is proportional to the square of the enclosed loop area):

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/16-20-structural-mechanics-fall-...

This might be the US version:

https://leanfactoryamerica.com/brand/green-frame/

The site mentioned "green frame" and googling found this, seems to be a licensor, since they have a brochure with "SUS" on it.

Looks cool, thanks for mentioning it.

That cross section looks like an …

This looks amazing. The range of connectors is fantastic too.

I wish I could read Japanese instead of clicking random things though.

When I was a teenager I used to improvise prototypes at home with those generic Meccano sets (small prototypes where the stifness of extrusion frames wasn't needed).

Is there any modern equivalent? If I look for Meccano nowadays it seems to have gone the way of Lego, where you only have prescribed construction sets, haven't found generic parts sets.

Is there any modern equivalent of Meccano for such an application?

Are you looking for https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/

Things like https://www.amazon.com/fischertechnik-Creative-Box-Basic-Plu...

And while many of the kits are "you can build this"... the interesting stuff is at https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/simulating - things like Training Factory Industry 4.0 24V with PLC connection board https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/products/simulating/trainin...

Looks interesting, but uses way more I/O than I expected :O

I have piles (4 boxes!) of Fischer Technik in my garage that belonged to my father. He always loved it as a prototyping toy, and thought it to be a much better system than LEGO - which it probably was for construction, but not for kids randomly playing with stuff. I'm not really sure what to do with it all these days...

Make your own rail guided marble run and use it as the skeleton. And while they do make their own ( https://www.fischertechnik.de/en/products/playing/profi-dyna... ) you could use it as the structure behind https://youtu.be/kPguktA674w

I'll also suggest a "random stuff behind you" for video calls. Rube Goldberg machines.

There's a 80/20 DIY Azimuth/Elevation rotator design by the SatNOGS team: https://wiki.satnogs.org/SatNOGS_Rotator_v3

If you have access to a 3D printer and want to build a Az/El rotator suitable for LEO satellites it could be a great weekend project.

(You don't have to connect it to the SatNOGS network https://network.satnogs.org of course, and you don't need to build that to participate in the project)

Signed back in for the first time in... years... to add that a lot of DIY van / overlander builders are using this stuff! I opted for the cheaper but almost-as-good TNutz.com manufacturer for my build. Slightly different alloy but totally valid for my needs. If you're considering building a van, check out Seven-O-Savage on youtube:

How to build a van with 80/20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqiroMdqZ0Y

Puts wooden chair in house.

How to build a wooden house!

So weird I for the first time ever was looking at 80/20 for overlanding and this ends up on HN.

What's your project gonna look like?!

The reason I haven’t used these for a few past projects is that they can’t quite hold up under human-scale weights (1). Would be awesome to have something like this but steel!

1: https://us.misumi-ec.com/pdf/fa/2010/p2433.pdf

I've used all kinds of 8020 frames for things much larger and heavier than humans. You just have to use larger cross-section members: https://www.facebook.com/229125947114533/photos/pb.100063454...

That’s what the chart I linked says. To stand on a 1m length suspended on both ends, a 2060 might work but a 2080 should be safe. That’s just a bit smaller than a much cheaper wooden 1x4 though.

I've used 80/20 for a number of projrcts, but for a larger project I found this steel square/rectangular tube system from Flex Craft works well. No relation other than satisfied customer. The people are also great to work with.

[0] flex-craft.com

The chart doesn't seem to account for the profiles that only have a slot on 1 or 2 sides versus all 4. I would guess those are quite a bit stronger. Like this one: https://8020.net/media/catalog/product/cache/9208ae76a38c408...

Edit: Their calculator shows the same exact deflection with the same weight, so maybe not, though that seems odd to me. https://8020.net/deflection-calculator

That’s only really useful to compare sizes. Normally you just build your structure with as many supports etc as needed. And 30 degree, 60 degree, 90 degree etc connecting pieces are standard to add support struts.

You might look into Unistrut or the other compatible steel strut channel.

You’re looking for metal framing channel aka Unistrut (brand name) aka strut (trade name). 12 ga steel is going to be far stronger than extruded aluminum. It’s heavily used in commercial and industrial construction.

Love these guys and used them multiple times to build small structures. McMaster-Carr (obviously) also has a ton of handy connectors and fasteners: https://www.mcmaster.com/t-slotted-framing/

I call it lego for the industry. Many 3d printer frames are made of it. Sim racing rigs are made of it.

I call it legos for adults, with the price tag and everything ;)

I would argue that LEGO is more expensive, way more expensive.

So what would be a LEGO for adults without the price tag?

PVC pipes and fittings.

PVC fittings are weirdly expensive, considering how cheap the pipes themselves are.

It's probably because the manufacturing process is more complicated.

I bet the pipe is practically continuously extruded from a machine but the fittings also have to be processed and bent into shape before they harden.

I thought it was an Australia thing but yes, $1.50 pipes and $3 fittings are the norm here too. Fortunately, you can 3d print fittings which opens up all sorts of possibilities that don't really make sense for use in plumbing.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2956356

Just bar, sheet, tube and round steel. Still less than $1/lb

As an example of how you can use this stuff, here's a home-theater screen frame with built-in horizontal masking, and plans on how it could be extended to 4-way masking:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/smx-simple-masking-experien...

The wooden GridBeam system was trending a few hours ago, and I assume it reminded someone to post this.

But if you missed it, and these things interest you, check that out as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34565675

One of my startups used 80/20 successfully for the mechanical structure of our networked factory stations (along with industrial PC and sensors).

Designed, tested, refined&tuned, and built in Cambridge (USA). Then broken down simply, to fit in a few pieces in boxes for flight, and reassembled at the factory in Asia.

Anybody into sim racing will be intimately familiar with this system. Very strong, very versatile.

Came here to say the same thing. So many pre-made kits using it, and plenty of people who DIY a sim racing cockpit with it. SimRacingGarage has reviewed some 6DOF rigs which use 8020 at their core.

For small stuff there is also makerbeam, 10x10mm sized, uses M3 fasteners. https://www.makerbeam.com

Unfortunately it’s prohibitively expensive for larger “intricate” work projects. Otherwise it’s good stuff. Just a little more expensive than I’d like per linear meter.

The best place I've found in the UK to get aluminium extrusion is KJN aluminium: https://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/

They do Item and Bosch-Rexroth compatible extrusions for a reasonable price. I'd probably go with Item because the official BR stuff is a rip off and sooner or later you might want to buy "official" parts.

I you're close to the EU, I recommend these guys:

https://www.motedis.com/en

They'll pre-cut everything you need and send it to you.

If you're into aluminum extrusions, here's a sample:

https://www.motedis.com/en/Slot-profiles

With all the recommendations flying around, I’d like to seek the collective wisdom’s advice, as I’ve been looking for suppliers anywhere in the world that make these kinds of metal construction framing systems that either make locally in my country or state, or have low bulk shipping to it. I’ve been trying for ages to find a way to avoid the significant markup to ship these sorts of heavy metal items to Western Australia. I’ve even been keepin regular tabs on local metal extruders and the few theatres have extruders in state are pretty much entirely making things for the housing/building construction industry and a couple of standard garden/industry forms like tube triangle, square, star picket, etc…

Anyone got advice on good suppliers local or global? I’m happy waiting a month or three for stuff to arrive from anywhere on the globe if it means I don’t spend 15-25% on shipping.

I recently used aluminium extrusions to build a window. Built a "perfect" frame, stuffed glazing putty into the spaces, then fit a glass in, which I had cut to size. Needed a DIY job as it was just for my garden house. There's more to a proper window than just the glass and frame.

If you need to build a CAD model of 8020 frames, Onshape is a collaborative, cloud based system which is a bit like Google docs and Github for mechanical CAD. There's a bunch of tools to create frame systems and they have the 8020 frame profiles built in.

https://www.onshape.com/en/features/frames https://www.onshape.com/en/blog/announcing-onshape-frames

Would love to see something like this in europe (uk not included because of customs) the induvidual beams that is available costs more than 30eur/meter so impossible to diy anything with low budget

Yeah same, I've tried finding them in local stores a long while ago and all of them basically looked at me like I'm asking for a moon rock or something.

where do you live? At least here in germany there are some sites selling B- and I- Type (Bosch/Item) compatible aluminium profiles for ~15eur/m with custom lengths (the heavy duty B-Type 45x45) I personally build most of the stuff out of these profiles, easy, sturdy and reusable

Spent last couple of weeks browsing this site and other 80/20 sites. There is an online cad program specially made for 80/20 https://item.engineering/AUen/tools/engineeringtool/ . And some guy who makes woodworking jigs from extruded aluminum https://www.youtube.com/@jisakukobo/videos

Don't ... tempt me.

I'm looking for a soft ute canopy (i.e. canvas) that is both strong enough to put ladder racks on top, but lightweight and easy enough to remove. Surprisingly, there are not too many options. Those that are available in Australia for my ute (ISUZU D-MAX), have really low load limits i.e. only 40kgs or so.

I think 80/20 could be a good solution, if I was better with my hands. There seem to be quite a few options for locks and quick releases.

Would make it very easy to add shelves and sliders.

I've used 8020 to custom-fab my Perfect Monitor Stand: it holds either three widescreen or two ultra-wide displays, has two attachment points to the desk, and has the minimum possible depth to keep the monitors as far as possible towards the back of the desk. It wasn't cheap, but it's solved basically all of my monitor layout issues.

There’s also 2020 which are thinner. I used those to build an aluminum enclosure and also as a frame for a 2-axis machine.

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/182267530871241...

The popular open source option is www.openbuildspartstore.com Availible via many resellers worldwide and even cloned.

The extrusion profile is Open Source, so not clones.

There’s a guy on YouTube who makes conversion vans using this stuff. He has figured out a bunch of tricks with it, but the one thing I feel like he hasn’t figured out is that he’s losing a cubic foot per cabinet by not exploiting the void behind the posts.

Last I checked it was hard or expensive after shipping and duty to get this stuff. I am on Vancouver Island and would love to get some of this stuff. Made me even consider starting a business selling it.

I've been building out my sim racing setup with 8020 for the past three years. It's a goodsend if you want to build something durable, fast and cheap but can't work wood.

More modern equivalent to 8020 - https://vention.io - really great way to get started developing an idea!

What does more modern mean?

More modern = the same thing as existing products but the surface is anodised blue, by the look of it.

Try tnutz.com. I found them much cheaper for building stuff. They cut it for you as well. Had to build some stuff for my truck and they were the cheapest.

What are the options for similar supplier in the EU?

im answering my own question here, but it seems https://uk.misumi-ec.com/ is one of the more competitive options

Ah, so that's what these are called! My 3D printer(ender 5) is made out of these and I could never find the name of those metal bars!

Thanks! I'm going to build a bike cart and although Wize has a kit, I would rather use my design, this info will help greatly!

If you live near a Grainger or other industry supplier that will sell to the public, it’s much cheaper without shipping.

I want this, but I don't want to pay much more than the raw aluminium cost.

The cost of pushing aluminium through an extrusion die is nearly zero. The die cost isn't much anymore in the world of cheap CNC machining. And the R&D costs for coming up with the shape shouldn't be high (and already paid off years ago).

So why is that stuff still so expensive??

Demand. It's ubiquitous. I've seen it in every prototype or mockup or early version of every larger-than-a-breadbox system I've worked on. It's used for lighting, sound systems, camera mounts, even shelving in some cases.

Whenever two or more engineers get together to design something, 80/20 is there in spirit at least.

By that logic, the lego sets we buy for our kids should also be the cost of plastic ;)

> So why is that stuff still so expensive??

Bosch Rexroth.

Bosch's extrusion profiles are what people at big co's who need stiffness and don't care about price tag will buy.

My guess is that Bosch warps the whole market up and the competion follows.

You used to be able to buy a basic extrusion die in China for $500 and off to the races at $0.80/lbs extrusion cost with 500kg MOQ.

Wonder if there's patent protection on the US sale of that profile?

You still have to cut it, ship it, distribute it, sell it. If you were buying 500 kg, you too could probably find a way to get it cheaply made.

As a counterexample, I will say:

The cost of typing characters on a keyboard is nearly zero. So why is software still so expensive??

Remember it isn't quite a basic extrusion die because it has a hollow in the middle. I assume that at least requires some fancy 3d shape.

The patent expired in 2013. (US5429438A)

I wonder if just nobody noticed?

I imagine most users are engineers employed by companies. This would tend to decrease the price sensitivity while increasing the desire to go with a brand name.

I see now McMaster-Carr has their own knockoff, they for sure can successfully leverage their reach, reputation and brand recognition to compete. I imagine price must go down once enough people catch on that this is a relatively unprotected commodity and enough reputable players have cross compatible offerings.

https://www.mcmaster.com/products/t-slotted-extrusions

Is this just an ad?

Great to have another T-slot build system. Seems slightly pricier than Makerbeam but a lot more profile sizes and options in general. I wish there were more kits in their catalog.

80/20 has been around since the late 80s, and are kinda the “classic” brand-name in aluminum extrusions. Popular for trade shows and the like. They tend to be on the more expensive side compared to Misumi or other brands, but you can sometimes find them cheap used on Craigslist.

There's a US anti-dumping embargo on extruded aluminum, which seems to keep the price high.

Intriguing. But the concept is new to me, and I found the site not very n00b friendly.

My initial questions are:

Can I use it to build a greenhouse? And how much would that cost?

I couldn't find anything comparable, and left.

You could but it would be extremely expensive, and not as strong as a steel construction. If you are building a robot that tends to the plants in your greenhouse however, this is a great material to both build the skeleton of the robot, and the structure that holds your plants. It allows you to quickly prototype in a very precise and lightweight manner.

Thanks. Still intriguing, but now for other ideas / projects. I wish the site was more transparent on their sweet spot.

The sweet spot for extrusions is usually convenient precision. If you don't need relatively high precision and accuracy, they are often overkill.

Well, it's a cool tech-y look as well.

Simple square aluminium tubing would be cheaper and with similar characteristics for this application. You can assemble them quite easily with a drill and bolts/nuts/washers of the appropriate size.

The advantage these profiles have is that they are more precise, are more easily adjusted and allow for a wide range of connections.

Add a portable bandsaw to your collection and raw stock is probably ultimately more adaptable

I've done all of my extrusion cuts using my miter saw with just the stock wood blade, I go a bit slow and the cut is basically indistinguishable from the factory cuts. I assume it'd do as well on tube stock, but if I was cutting large diameter solid stock I'd probably go with a non-ferrous blade.

Do what I did: buy a Multiprocess welder

There needs to be an industrial meccano simulator game to mess around with all these systems, along with bamboo scaffolding.

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