Hacker News Reader

Comment by papito | Hacker News Reader

I asked at a bank recently for 100 $2 bills (I needed it for tipping on a cruise ship). The tellers were extremely curious about what it was for. I got 100 still-bundled bills, like in crime movies!

View on HN

If this isn't something tellers see quite regularly, then what do other cruise passengers do?

I asked for a lot of £5 (smallest denomination note in UK) at the bank once because I was going to a music festival (before mobile card payment was routine). They asked me casually why I wanted them and I explained. Seems to be a Know Your Customer thing.

For a period I was withdrawing 5k cash weekly. I was required to wait for 20 minutes each time and give a reason why. I settled on 'money fight' as it seemed to upset them the most.

If they can't just give you the money they have on hand (perhaps deposited by other customers), you are increasing the cost of the transaction for them. Cash is expensive. People complain about card transactions, but wait until you need to deal with cash deposits and withdrawals regularly - that adds up quick, and is the main reason why a lot of businesses in the UK have moved to card only since the pandemic.

It's also the case that criminals prefer cash, and a large number of small denomination notes could be used to facilitate a large number of small value crimes more easily.

Drug dealing is the obvious one, but there are others. I witnessed a shoplifters being stopped by a security guard once, with £200 worth of goods in their coat (booze, steaks), and they offered a £5 note - "it's all I have" - and by making that offer of payment, they reduced the crime and the penalty somewhat to the point the manager and security officer removed the goods, asked them to leave and told them they weren't welcome any more - no police involved. For all that bank knew, you were running a gang of shoplifters doing this.

Why does offering payment reduce crime?

In my jurisdiction it is enough if it is evident that you intent to steal something. Theft can only be prosecuted if there is intent. Usually if they suspect someone shoplifting they wait and spring the trap when there are enough clues, for example someone briskly walking to the exit.

One story: My wife got stopped in a departement store because she took an item in a sub-shop in the underground floor. It's not a mall. Then she went upstairs to look for more things to shop. The police was there after a short time. This means the shoplifting surveillance system has already sent out an alert to the police when my wife was on the stairs, because employees aren't allowed to hold people. But my wife didn't walk briskly to the exit but strolled around and when stopped she told them she wanted to pay for all things together. The police people even laughed and the employee directed my wife back downstairs to pay.

They were genuinely curious ("which cruise!"). It caused so much commotion that all three tellers got out of their seats - one of them went in the back to look while the others wanted to know more. My teller held the bundle in his hands and noted on its pristine state. I think he was jelly.

The banks often have the $2 notes, but you have to ask explicitly.

My bank tells me it's to help protect vulnerable customers - for example, if you want £2000 cash to pay some builders, they'll ask whether the builders have started work yet.

Although who knows if that's the whole reason?

Certainly not the whole reason, these days. But having known a few extremely gullible people, who were blatantly scammed out of thousands of dollars, it is enough reason.

It very much is to protect vulnerable customers, but it’s not wholly altruistic. UK Banks are (mostly) required to make customers whole if they’ve been defrauded unless they’ve been grossly negligent. The banks have tried to interpret the “gross” part fairly broadly but the regulator and Financial Ombudsman (legally mandated arbitration for consumers where that’s actually a good thing) interpret “gross” as more extreme than “almost anything”. The result of which is that banks are keen to show that they took every possible step to prevent someone being scammed - whether popping up notices during online payments, or asking in person. If they don’t, they can very easily be required to reimburse the customer themselves.

Edit: digging up a citation suggests that it might be a voluntary code that banks are signed up to [1], but the regulatory regime has still swung much more in favor of the customer.

[1] https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/banking/ban...

That's true for large amounts and there are a lot of scams so it makes sense. But this is around small denominations - I was only getting a few hundred GBP in £5s for a festival.

There are plenty of people around who would stab you, never mind cheat you, for a few hundred pounds.

I also get asked this questions if I buy gift cards at the supermarket or pharmacy these days. They have to "unlock" the card at their computer, so they ask if it's really for a gift or if it's some shady person on the phone.

If you watched Kitboga videos on Youtube, you know scammers often ask for gift cards as payment.

I didn't know this was a practice but I suspect some of it might be to detect overly trusting elderly people being ripped off. If it prevents some of that then it's probably a good thing.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com