Microsoft gets another Android maker to pay up: LG | Hacker News Reader

Microsoft gets another Android maker to pay up: LG

gigaom.com

34 pointszalthor27 comments

How can they justify the headline if "Details and financial arrangements of the agreement were not released".

I know they go on to say "this is likely a royalty deal similar to others that Microsoft has established" but as far as I'm aware it's only rumours and hearsay about the other deals too.

The previous deal between them that is mentioned involved LG paying an ongoing royalty for using Linux, but Microsoft in turn making a "net balancing payment" (whatever that is?) to LG which sounds to me like it's more about making Linux appear patent encumbered than it is about making money directly.

I'm keeping the score.

  ☑ HTC
  ☑ Samsung
  ☑ Acer
  ☑ LG
  ☑ Wistron
  ☑ Quanta
  ☑ Velocity Micro
  ☑ Onkyo
  ☑ General Dynamics
  ☑ View Sonic
  ☐ Motorola
  ☐ Barnes & Noble
  ☐ Amazon?

I was sure that Amazon had acquired broad patent licensing from Microsoft vis-a-vis their use of Linux in general, but interestingly those licenses apparently DO NOT cover Android [1], which of course includes the Kindle Fire. it will be interesting to see how that turns out, but I would guess that if they already licensed X they'll be much more amenable to licensing Y from MS.

[1] http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/09/30/kindle.fire.is...

You should add Google to the bottom of that list. Google releases one smartphone every year, and so far they did not sign any patent deal with Microsoft.

Every Google phone (G1,Nexus,Nexus S, Galaxy Nexus) was made with a hardware manufacturer (HTC, Samsung, etc). - why add Google to that list?

Google might have the hardware manufactured by other companies, but I think Google ends up as the producer of each Nexus device.

They completely design the software experience, they at least co-design the hardware, they sell the devices, and they are the one's supporting and updating them.

I find it very disappointing that not more companies are standing up to Microsoft. Motorola has already gotten 6 out of 7 of Microsoft's patents invalidated in Court, and B&N will probably get a similar percentage invalidated in their case, too.

Even if they still end up paying for some patents in the end, it should be a much smaller sum, rather than paying almost as much as they do for the full WP7 license, which represents an entire OS.

Even if they still end up paying for some patents in the end, it should be a much smaller sum

Why do you say that? Unless MS has come out and said something like RAND terms on the patents in dispute MS can charge $50B for the use of one patent if they like.

If anything they may end up paying more because the defendent would have no recourse, having lost in court. If I were MS (or any company) and I just had a patent of mine validated by the court, which was integral in my competitors product I'd start raking people over the coals.

There's no reason to believe that these are an exhaustive list of patents that Microsoft will claim Android infringes on. If enough of them get invalidated to weaken the full case, won't they just pull out another dozen and continue the shakedown?

But how do you prove that the patent license is too expensive? It's just as possible that the patent price is "fair" and WP7 is being sold at below cost because it's doing so badly in the market.

I'm not sure why I spend all this time making stuff when it's clear the real future is in parasitism.

Stop making things and start "inventing" them. Just look into your crystal ball and get patents for things that are just a bit bleeding edge today, but will soon be common. I suggest the following:

* Method and apparatus for purchasing goods and services using a virtualized high-definition three dimensional representation or abstraction of a retail store using free-form or pre-defined gesture control and voice recognition.

* Method and apparatus for purchasing manufactured goods made to order from pre-defined parameters configurable by way of hypertext document or through voice recognition.

* Method and apparatus for manufacturing realistic three dimensional replicas of pre-existing objects based on scanned or designed specifications offer through a small self-service kiosk-sized facility.

Because at some point, we're all assuming this will hit critical mass, and then patent reformation will occur.

While everyone was debating about whether Google was evil and a monopoly with 70% of search, Microsoft marches on with a desktop monopoly of 90% and a similar Office document monopoly.

Are you still feeding Microsoft? They are still a big problem, and have been for almost two decades.

Monopoly in itself is not a problem. The problem is when a monopoly uses its position for anti-competitive practices.

Monopoly is a problem. It comes to a point when they're spending more time and money on litigating other people's businesses than advancing their own technology that everyone is forced to use.

Previous stories have talked about fees between $5 and $15, depending on what patents the manufacturer has that can be cross-licensed [1].

From what little I understand, it's essentially the same fee of $15 that Microsoft charges for each WP7 device, with the idea being not that Microsoft makes a significant amount of money from Android but that they make each manufacturer consider Android and WP7 equals in terms of up-front costs (with the hope that Microsoft can then offer a bit more to get WP7 signed up?).

http://gigaom.com/2011/07/06/can-android-be-microsofts-next-...

Just that e.g. HTC and Samsung and Acer don't pay anything at all, they just promised to a) also make Win7 phones and b) tell the world they pay royalties.

Since LG was a Window Mobile shop in the past, I guess they did the same...

This reminds me a lot of back when the SCO Group was suing everyone who used/sold Linux and was a big enough target to be worth their time.

When's this scam gonna get busted wide open and Microsoft and its company officers shut down and thrown in jail?

Because if it were anyone else it would have been done and dusted ages ago.

The whole thing stinks and clearly, they've got help.

> and Microsoft and its company officers shut down and thrown in jail?

Thrown in jail for what? What specific laws are they breaking.

If that were the case you can be sure that these companies would be fighting back.

It's called racketeering. 50 years ago they were busting your legs. Now the goons have gotten jobs at disfunctional technology companies, and are threatening and abusing business via the legal system.

This isn't racketeering since what they're being protected from is an action that is legal and within their right to demand payment for. Your problem is with the patent system, not with MS's behavior.

Could you imagine Bill Gates and Balmer busting up legs of Asian/European execs?

I get your point, but is is racketeering if it is legal -- 'pay us or we'll sue' seems to be the norm

It's hardly racketeering. In it's purest form, the patent system actually protects people from hving their ideas stolen from them, and ensuring they are properly paid for their ideas. However, your vitriol at Microsoft is rather amusing. You do realize that Apple, Kodak, and Oracle, among many others, have launched patent infringement claims against companies that could be considered competitors?

Yeah, I said it wasn't racketeering because it was legal

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