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Comment by robbywashere_ | Hacker News Reader

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robbywashere_

Very fancy! Currently in Thailand, defeated by:

“Private Relay is not available in Thailand due to local laws and regulations.“

“Privacy is a fundamental human right.” Unless local laws and regulations say otherwise.

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If Thailand blocks Apple's relay domain and IP address what else could they do besides tell you it isn't going to work?

From a purely technical perspective, they could just force private relay for all Apple-bound traffic. Thailand would have to choose between working iPhones and blocking private relay.

If history teach as anything is that autocratic government favors control over their people in lieu of apple devices. And capitalistic companies favors money in lieu of human rights.

Wikipedia disallows editing from iCloud Relay IP addresses, so not a great idea in general. And if you really think authoritarian governments are going to choose iPhones over control, well…

I was specifically suggesting doing this for Apple-bound communications, not for all traffic. In that situation blocking private relay would just break app store and other important functionality, rendering the devices borderline useless.

> And if you really think authoritarian governments are going to choose iPhones over control, well…

lol, Thailand doesn't even block VPNs. You really think they'd do something as drastic as banning Apple devices over this?

There are many authoritarian countries were banning iPhones would simply be unimaginable, there's no way they'd even think about doing that in places like Russia.

> Just break app store and other important functionality, rendering the devices borderline useless.

If Apple breaks laws isn't that what Governments should do? For instance in Europe (was it Netherlands ?).Apple has blatantly ignored a ruling on app store and allowed fines to accumulate. The government should have blocked the app store but instead let itself be bullied by Apple

> If Apple breaks laws isn't that what Governments should do?

It depends.

> You really think they'd do something as drastic as banning Apple devices over this?

I dunno, but the feature is disallowed for a reason. It's more than a VPN because it's so much easier to use than VPNs are typically and I believe it's also enabled by default with iCloud.

They would need not to ban Apple devices, as Apple has a history of following local censorship and citizen spying laws, even if they violate human rights. They have never put an effort against governments, etc. like Google. See China, for example.

How would you feel if a corporation was ignoring local regulation to enforce their own worldview?

Pretty good if it happens to align with mine, angry if otherwise?

At least you are honest about that stance.

How else could it be? It's simply not possible that all worldviews are equal. It's undoubtedly true that my view of the world is simply better than someone else's and vice-versa.

Well yeah, there are plenty of places without humans rights and sometimes the laws enforce that.

Do you expect Apple to violate the laws of your country?

Not the author, but I would say,

Expected? No. For a global company without backbone. Wish? Yes.

There are fairly successful companies like Telegram and Signal, who are aggressively using technical measures to evade censorship.

Apple certainly could do this.

Sure, but not if they wish to keep on operating (i.e. selling things, and manufacturing things as part of their business) legally in that country.

There are significant costs associated with something as visible as banning the sales of Apple devices. Governments are certainly capable of doing this, but the cost-benefit analysis does not necessarily add up.

The benefit of Telegram and Signal doing this over a company like Apple is that they don't own a significant part of the smartphone and computer (and associated services) markets. This gives Apple a lot more control and influence over people and consequently carry a lot more responsibility in what they do. If I notice Signal doing something I like, it's far easier to convert to a competitor than it is for the average user to switch away from the Apple ecosystem once you're in it.

Also unlike Telegram, Apple has significant local physical presence and employees that the government can go after.

What significant local physical presence does Apple have in Thailand? They're setting up a factory there, kicking that out would hurt Thailand way more than it would hurt Apple.

Having to comply with local laws and regulations is sort of accepted when operating a business in a particular country. How would it hurt Thailand significantly more than Apple if they're ejected for not complying with legal requirements? And frankly, it's sort of moot. Apple is more than happy to comply with national governments. Just look at them pulling communication apps whenever there's a protest in <insert country with autocratic government here>.

If YOU don’t agree with the laws of your country, move and take on a different citizenship

How to tell others you come from sheltered and privileged background without saying it explicitly.

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