The rich don't go to jail already. The crypto scammer paid a huge bail and got out on his private jet. That, to me, is far more dystopian than a cheap tool to help people appeal traffic tickets.
What the parent was referring to is the fact that if AI starts to consume the low-end (starting with traffic tickets), actual lawyers for trials will become even more expensive, and thus poorer people will actually fare worse because they will lose their already-limited access to human lawyers. Yes, their case might get handled with less hassle and cheaper, but the quality of the service is not -better-, it's just cheaper/easier.
That should only happen if lawyers become very niche or if those low end cases are subsidizing trials.
I doubt the former, and the latter means the situation is already bad and mainly just the type of unfairness would change.
The outrage there is bails being set to unaffordable sizes for poor people. OP was picking out the case where bail functioned as intended.
The complaint was purely about rich people avoiding jail prior sentencing due to being able to pay bail. This was called dystopian.
We can't just assume it's going to go the worst way. Neither outcome is particularly more likely, and the human element is by far the most unpredictable.
To wit: I was listening to a report yesterday on NPR about concierge primary care physicians. The MD they were interviewing was declining going that direction because they saw being a doctor as part duty and felt concierge medicine went against that.
It is dishonest to conflate "not being sentenced yet" with "got out".
The overwhelming majority of cases bailed in the UK surrender exactly as expected, even in cases where they know they are likely to receive a custodial sentence. Where people don't surrender I've been to hearings for those people and they're almost invariably incompetent rather than seriously trying to evade the law. Like, you were set bail for Tuesday afternoon, you don't show up, Wednesday morning the cops get your name, they go to your mum's house, you're asleep in bed because you thought it was next Tuesday. Idiots, but hardly a great danger to society. The penalty for not turning up is they spend however long in the cells until the court gets around to them, so still better than the US system but decidedly less convenient than if they'd actually turned up as requested.
> About a third of people who are arrested cannot afford bail, while if you are rich (maybe through crime), you can pay it.
This means 2/3 of arrested people can afford bail or are released without it. A case of single rich person having affordable bail is not exactly proof of inequality here. Poor people who had low enough bail they were able to pay do exist too.
1) The driver was actually speeding
and
2) The driver is trying to get off on a technicality
Is that the case?
In the US do you get "points" on your driving license so that if you are caught speeding several times in the space of a couple of years you get banned?
In the UK being caught mildly speeding (say doing 60 in a 50), in the course of 3 years it's typically
1st time: 3 hour course and £100
2nd, 3rd, 4th time: 3 points and £100
5th time: Driving ban and £100 (or more)
Breaking the speed limit by 10mph is completely unenforced. I've yet to be on the highway without someone going 20 over, and no enforcement.
It's a very good reason not to speed.
So it's just a fine that Americans get for speeding?
Are fines at least proportional to wealth? Or can a rich people speed without problem as saving 10 minutes on their journey is worth the $100 fine even if it was guaranteed they got one?
(In the UK speed is almost entirely enforced by cameras, not by police cars which are rarely seen on roads. Removes any bias the cop might have -- maybe the cop has it in for young tesla drivers so pulls them over, but lets the old guy in a pickup go past)
Well, things vary from state to state. But there is definitely a point system in place for excessive speeding, speeding in a school zone, passing a school bus at any speed, stuff like that. In a lot of places you can be arrested for reckless driving, with varying levels of what defines "reckless." Virginia is notorious for their speeding laws. Speeding in excess of 20mph of the posted limit or in excess of 80mph regardless of limit (e.g. 81 in a 65) is what they consider reckless driving and it's a misdemeanor that could potentially (but not likely) give you a one year jail sentence.
And the parent is correct the much of the US is set up for people to drive so much so that being draconian isn't practical. And it's something to keep in mind that any given individual didn't decide that's how the place they live in is setup.
Most tickets are given by live officers. Cameras do exist, but typically only in dense urban areas. Which opens another can of worms, as police are biased.
We also have lists of secondary offenses the officer can cite only after citing you for speeding (or some other primary offense). Things like a failed light bulb, or some other minor safety issue. These are disproportionately used against PoC.
Those are the people that get tickets. Otherwise, it is pretty difficult to even get pulled over.
I have only been pulled over twice in my life and not in 20 years. I think police departments have cut back quite a bit on police trying to rack up traffic tickets.
The fine is not the issue. The whole process is a massive waste of your time.
Most people, when they want to fight such tickets, think they can argue their way out of it. Whereas the judge and officers simply just want to get the hearings over with. They do hundreds of such hearings a week and have heard it all before. So, the judge will tell the courtroom that they can get a reduction and how to get it. Sadly, the defendants are anxious, have been mentally preparing themselves for a fight, and are in an unfamiliar environment so they tend to get tunnel vision and choose to plead 'not guilty'. They inevitably loose.
If you ever find yourself in such a situation, pay close attention to what the judge offers everyone before the hearings begin. If they don't offer such a bargain, when it is your time to appear before the judge you can ask "would the court consider a reduction in exchange for a plea of no contest?" It doesn't hurt to ask.
0. https://www.salon.com/2017/04/05/this-may-have-happened-to-y...
1. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/speed-trap-profits-could-come-e...
Locally, it's a somewhat significant problem that people are getting caught for violent crimes and getting released immediately and reoffending.
Do they get bail a second time?
Do you think they wouldn't reoffend if they weren't released until after they are punished?
If they do two crimes and get two sentences, does it matter if that's AABB or ABAB?
If it doesn't, then it's two crimes either way, just timed differently. And after the policy settled in it would have negligible impact on the crime rate.
Also if you're doing sentencing for two crimes at once you can give a longer punishment for the first crime and get them off the street longer.
But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender; also, some people die during the sentence... the probability does go down, for many small reasons compounded together.
Not unless I'm a robot programmed to prevent recidivism at all costs. Why are you even asking this?
> But no, the probability does decreases since not every ex-jailed becomes a repeated offender
...and not everyone released before their trial becomes a repeat offender.
> some people die during the sentence
Is that a significant effect? I don't think most sentences are long enough for that to make a big difference, and I don't think preventing a single crime per lifetime, at most, is enough reason to keep people locked up for the lengthy pre-trial process.
Because otherwise we're talking about completely different scenarios.
But if there is still a trial I don't see how "why bother" makes sense...
* Not allowing bail for people at high risk of reoffending or flight is already allowed
* Reoffending while waiting on trial or out on bail is rare
On the other hand there seems to be a huge problem in the US of people being detained for long times without a trial.