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Comment by tarotuser | Hacker News Reader

This is NOT new news.

Same discussion, from 2015 - https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/toxic-abs-pla-fumes-3dsa...

And in 3d printing groups, it was common to hear people say "ABS smells like cancer". Sure, anecdotes aren't evidence proper, but the science certainly bears this claim.

Edit: And to add my own anecdote, I have a large format high temp printer. It is capable of printing stuff like ultem (375c tip, 220c bed). It is enclosed with a activated carbon filter/fan for airflow. But one time when printing polycarbonate, I took a .5w green laser to the print area. When it was shining near the print interface, I could see ALL SORTS of stuff being flung at high speed away from the nozzle. Lets just say I was glad I have that machine fully enclosed.

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quote from the article:

"The toxicity tests showed that PLA particles were more toxic than the ABS particles on a per-particle comparison, but because the printers emitted so much more of the ABS"

so, not just ABS

My own anecdote was about polycarbonate printing.

But I would be very scientifically comfortable that ANY plastic brought at or above its glass transition state is going to outgas toxic materials. And that includes PLA, ABS, HIPS, polycarbonate, PETG, PET, ASA, and more. And printing is usually quite a bit above tg. Higher temp = more nastiness.

That's why my 3d printers are in my workshop, separated from our house. And they are also enclosed printers, so I'm less worried of particulate exposure. But again, anybody starting off early in 3d printing knew this was a definite threat and a concern.

Anybody talking about the toxicity of lactic acid on the context of perfectly fine breathable air is bull of bullshit.

And yes, we have known since forever that it is highly toxic. It's also common on your organism, on much higher concentrations than you will get from your printer.

Anyway, the common advice applies. If you get a 3D printer, use it on ventilated spaces, and if you will print with anything that isn't PLA, make sure it is well ventilated and doesn't ventilate into anybody. What really surprised me was this:

> these tests indicate that exposure to these filament particles could over time be as toxic as the air in an urban environment

I expected it to be much worse. Printing ABS does surely not smell like an urban environment. I guess a 3D printer generates much fewer silent poisons than a city.

Indeed. I am too lazy to look but I distinctly remember an article talking about the hazards of 3d printing fumes before even 2015. Possibly all the way to the early days of the original makerbot.

I have been in injection molding plants and the smell isn't pleasant. Melted/burning plastic odors fill the air along with hydraulic fluid and other oils and grease from the machinery.

Any tips or pointers on activated carbon air filters? How do you monitor the filter capacity and know when to change it? (Especially since based on my online reading, carbon filters, unlike PM filters, just start letting VOCs through as opposed to "clogging up")

If you can get them into a shed or an outbuilding, that's 99.9% of the problem solved.

You can also enclose the printer. For example, the ender3 pro has a box bag that you can put the printer in. Solves the problem.

My custom printer has the activated carbon airfilter/fan. Its probably overboard, but I did have that in my workspace for a while, so it was worthwhile for the time. I have no good metric when the filters should be replaced... I don't know any way to monitor particulate load in a filter.

I have an Bambu X1 Carbon in my office and print sometimes. It has a glass enclosure and Carbon Filters, but I have no idea how effective they are.

Any ideas if having this enclosed printer in my office is a real danger?

I'd trust your nose. If you can smell it printing, it means you're smelling the outgassing of unburnt and burnt plastics.

You could also get a pm10 and pm2.5 air quality monitor for a more scientific measurement. Gasses won't trigger those, depending on what they are.. I guess you could make a forced air device with 20 sensors in it, but nothing on the market is like that.

As for limited exposure, it's probably not too bad. But uncovered in bedroom... Whole different story.

The filter in the X1 isn't good enough to filter much out at all really. It's more of a gimmick than a genuine filter solution. I've put mine in an out building and installed a shower fan in the wall which is connected up to a relay controlled by a Raspberry Pi. I've then got an air quality sensor that triggers it turning on.

Even that isn't close to being enough to filter it all out and I'd certainly not stay in the room for any length of time whilst it was printing.

It may not be "news" but seeing as 3D printing is still very much at the Eternal September stage of growth with many less technical owners entering the hobby, it's a very good idea to keep putting this information and any new knowledge out there.

Yup, pretty much the reason I shared it. The 3d printing community is going through somewhat of a transition with the 'next generation' of 3d printers (Voron and Bambu Lab X1 & P1P). The latter is a high performance, high print quality consumer focused printer capable of printing anything from basic PLA up to complex carbon fiber and nylon based materials and all its got is a tiny little filter box which does next to nothing.

The worry is that people think "its got a filter built in, its fine" when its not even close to being true.

It sounds like the issue is particulates rather than gasses; in that case an activated carbon filter won't do much and a HEPA filter would be better.

With all the new materials that you can get I think a combination of both (plus venting to outside) is needed for real protection.

The current hot new printer is the Bambu Lab X1. It's aimed at consumers and is capable of printing things like Carbon Fiber Nylon, Polycarbonate and Thermoplastic polyurethane (TPU). These are far more volatile than run of the mill PLA and theres less studies available on their long term effects so take as many precautions as possible should be the message.

For sure. Many of these materials aren't new on the 3D printing scene either (even I've printed TPU on my $180 delta printer).

For most hobbyists PLA is the vast majority of their print time and it's a shame that we don't even have convenient and affordable systems to mitigate the risks of the baseline material (I don't consider cobbling together your own enclosure, ducting, and filter system convenient. As we have seen with open frame laser engravers, most consumers won't bother).

All components of ABS are classified probably carcinogenic. Likely safe after being formed, but during process I think there is probably some risks...

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