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Comment by pronlover723 | Hacker News Reader

I watch a lot of old movies (30s-40s-50s). A ton of them have a 40s-50s man marrying a 20s woman.

No idea if that was societal norm, mens fantasy, or whatever. I have to kind of believe movie execs would want the largest audience and so if 40s-50s men dating 20s women was not appealing to women of the time they'd been losing 1/2 the market. But, maybe these particular movies were the male equivalent of romance novels which seem to be written 99% for a female audience

Some examples:

The Girl Can't Help It (1956)

South Pacific (1958)

My Fair Lady (1964)

The Far Country (1954)

Casablanca (1942)

To Have and Have Not (1944)

Charade (1963)

There are literally 100s of them and I'm not recommending any of the movies above per-say, but it does stick out to me just how common that theme is of man, at least 15yrs older than woman which I believe is less common today

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I wonder how many of the male protagonists in these movies are extraordinarily or above-average rich, successful, handsome or charming.

I daresay you won't find a George from Seinfeld in there, rather a set of George Clooneys.

I don't doubt that there was an age difference, but we have/had plenty of living couples from that era and can look in the census records - were Spring/Fall marriages that common?

Afaik career of actress was considered to be dead by the time she was 40 or so for most. Younger are more sexy, basically. Male actors could play big roles later. It is not that older women did not existed in real life. They outnumbered old men in real life.

Plus, movies always operated in fashions. What was depicted was heavily limited by big studios policies and by mandated codes. These limited topics and the way things were shown.

Movies are not reality and never were. They don't depict real life now either.

Maryl Streep: when I turned forty, I was offered three witches in one year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH87lb_gc5U

There have been men in their 20s marrying women in their 50s too (especially when inheritances have been involved) but since they wouldn't get children in that case, they would be totally invisible in these kinds of genetic statistics.

Even if average age in a relationship was symmetric, men being fertile for longer would cause age at (child's) conception to be higher for men. That effect needs to be untangled before we can know just how much men preferred younger women in the past/vice versa.

In the US, Men are 2-3 years older than women at first marriage and have been for a century

https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/familie...

So it seems, that those movies are mainly targeted at older mens fantasy and do not represent reality. Quelle surprise.

There is a simpler explanation. Those older men are known actors/stars who have established some influence in the industry. That or some people might buy tickets to watch movies because it has a familiar name in leading role. The combination of the two above might be enough to explain why the older men can still play lead roles in movies.

Well, that leads to the question, why only men were famous actors past 40, which is where the arguments becomes tautological.

Because men can have attractive roles past 40 and women not, or only very rarely. I don't remember the name of the movie, but it was about greek and a female character that was 40, but the cast was not offered to a 40 year old, but a 30 year old.

Because 40 year old women are not supposed to look like 40 year olds, which is where we are back to the fantasy thing.

Biology is a real thing, though, men can become fathers with over 50, but women cannot. So I am not judging btw. But those fantasies are real and strong, even though they are taboo nowdays.

Biased age disparity in marriage is hardly a "fantasy" or even "taboo". I suspect if you looked at e.g. the top quintile of male earners, or those who married more than once, you're liable to see an even more pronounced gap over the aggregate median. Equally as interesting, how do wealthy divorced/widowed women marry afterwards?

Poking at US presidents that stood out (i.e. more than 5 years):

  | President | Born  | Spouse| Delta |
  |-----------|-------|-------|-------|
  | Biden     | 1942  | 1951* | 9     |
  | Trump     | 1946  | 1970* | 24    |
  | Reagan    | 1911  | 1921* | 10    |
  | Kennedy   | 1917  | 1929  | 12    |
  | Eisenhower| 1890  | 1896  | 6     |
  | Wilson    | 1856  | 1872* | 16    |
  | Harrison  | 1833  | 1858* | 25    |
  | Cleveland | 1837  | 1864  | 27    |
  | Arthur    | 1829  | 1837  | 8     |
  | Hayes     | 1822  | 1831  | 9     |
  | Lincoln   | 1809  | 1818  | 9     |
  | Fillmore  | 1800  | 1813* | 13    |
  | Polk      | 1795  | 1803  | 8     |
  | Tyler     | 1790  | 1820* | 30    |
  | Q. Adams  | 1767  | 1775  | 8     |
  | Monroe    | 1758  | 1768  | 10    |
  | Madison   | 1751  | 1768  | 17    |
  | Adams     | 1735  | 1744  | 9     |
  
  *: latest marriage

This shortlist includes the two oldest (Biden, Trump) and youngest (Kennedy) presidents voted into office. A relevant quote attributed to Jacqueline Kennedy[1], whose second marriage was to a businessman 23 years her senior:

> The first time you marry for love, the second for money, and the third for companionship.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/quotes/10612/

Well yes, there is this image, that the successful older men, has a younger wife (and even younger affairs). But the average men has not. Hence serving the "fantasy" of the target audience.

But as far as I observe, this is frowned upon today. It still exists of course, many of the hollywood heros regulary change their 20 year old models for partner, but there is increasing criticism about it. I mean, my partner is 7 years younger and even this was met with criticism.

I’m pretty sure the Leonardo DiCaprio’s of the world don’t care about the opinions of chattering spinsters and cat ladies.

Criticism from whom? If it's your friends, get better friends. Other than that, it might be family - which is easily explained as jealousy (any success at all tends to get that response). Am I missing some hypothetical case where someone criticises you about the age of your partner and their opinion somehow matters?

I did not ask for life advice, I was stating the fact, that nowdays age disparity seems to be frowned upon and provided a anecdotical data point.

It wasn't life advice, I was walking through my thought process towards asking why this is relevant. Which you have not addressed.

"why this is relevant."

Erm, because I live in this society, so the social norms of this society do affect me and well, everyone else in it. I thought that is obvious.

Our current French president would be an exception with a negative difference :-)

> Well, that leads to the question, why only men were famous actors past 40, which is where the arguments becomes tautological.

It was well known that Hollywood had an age discrimination problem for women up until the mid or late 80s or so.

Like a really well known problem where women couldn’t get leading roles after a certain age. It was a well publicized thing and just kind of common knowledge.

You are implying that holyrood does not have an age discrimination problem today?

Or first marriage is not the only marriage.

This. One of my ancestors (I think great, great grandfather) had 3 wives, all younger than him.

The reason for that is that 2 of them died in child birth. Modern medicine is a wonderful thing.

The important "men in their 50s" target audience for the musical/romance/comedy mashup!

In Asia I very often see men (and I don’t mean retired foreign guys moving to Asia) married to women 20, 30, even 40 years below them.

I’m used to the idea of actors and weird new age dudes doing it in the US, but it seems rare for normal people.

What world do you live in where 50 year old men don’t want 20 year old wives?

Why would you want a 20 year old wife at age 50. The maturity gap would be almost unbridgeable. The only benefits are sexual and even then the maturity aspect might play a part. Even in my late 20s, the idea of someone who has just left their teens would be deal breaker

A surprising amount of people don't mature at all between 17 and 57.

If a man at 50 wants to marry, it is usually because he wants kids, otherwise there is no reason to get married at that age. If he wants kids, the woman must be in the fertility age, which is 15 to 35, with the best bet in the 20-30 interval. Just biology. Yes, the maturity gap is big, but if that is the price to pay to have kids ...

I'm in my mid to late 30s and I don't want a 20 year old wife. I can't even imagine that at 50.

As they say, if you have dirty thoughts about 14 year old girl, and want do get rid of them, just spend some time with a 14 year old girl.

Same thing with 50 year old men with 20 year old wives. I am in my early 40s and there is no way I will marry woman in her early 20s, unless she is very special. Sure, 20 year old bodies are attractive, but maturity difference is too great. The movies are fantasies, showing off women at the age of peak physical attractiveness, with just enough immaturity to make the man feel more responsible by contrast, but without any of the quirks of actual immaturity.

Having a 20 year old sex partner is another story. And many women are willing to let you live your fantasy, for a time, for a price...

Those are all before birth control and before the maturation of fields like sports, entertainment and computers where young men could command as much money and influence as old industrialists. That probably shifted cultural ideals.

Also those movies are from the days where only a handful of movies were made every year, so the lack of competition meant you could write anything and jam it down people's throats, rather than needing to follow demand.

You know this hasn't stopped, ie Tom Cruise is 60 and you won't see him having female partners above 40, that look like 30. Sure he doesn't look his age, be it genes, good lifestyle, laser treatments etc. but he always looks much older than his partners.

It happens in real life too - successful older men being with much younger females is normalized by society and a common sight. The opposite not so much though.

Top Gun: Maverick came out last year, and features Jennifer Connolly (52) as his love interest. That’s still an age gap, but she certainly isn’t under 40.

women in their 20's wanting someone close to their age is a recent phenomena and only in the western world. Go to Africa, Asia, South Smerica or even eastern Europe and wonen in their late teens to early 20's will regularly express an interest in guys in their 30's or 40's.

tldr: America is a woman's dating market but the odds are better stacked for men once you leave the country.

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