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A long time ago, I read an account online of someone who was looking for a new recreational drug experience and they got some risperidone, which is a popular antipsychotic.

(https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=20529)

They took a much larger dose than the normally prescribed amount, and it resulted in a vividly recounted seemingly interminable and utterly hellish experience.

I found it interesting and kind of funny, because we all live in a world familiar with crazy people, casually saying that someone troublesome "should get some help" or if more "empathetic" plaintively ask why nobody is doing anything about the poor untreated and downtrodden wandering the streets.

And yet, it's a shock to a normal (more or less) person to find out that such medications, which are cheap and sometimes effective, are not fun.

For some reason, the idea that "crazy pills" range from unpleasant to unbearable torture depending on dosage doesn't suggest itself as an obvious hypothesis to explain why people who obviously need them won't take them. And it never drives the development of better options.

Even if someone does try it for themselves, their take-away is that it was hell for them because they aren't crazy.

I don't think that much higher dose then prescribed combined with a person that would not be prescribed the drug at all is a good example for your point. Dosage matters for the experience. And, whether your body has issue the drug is supposed to fix matters too. The reasons why people don't take drugs are more complex then that and for so.e of the issues there are simply no know drugs to fix it.

I’m bipolar II and thus “need” medicine. All medicines are a trade off: do the benefits outweighs the side effects. As someone who’s allergic to basically all chemicals they use for these (ADHD, anti depression and anti-psychotic) I would say that I sympathize with individuals who just don’t want to take them because they make you feel like “not you.”

I’ve also went years without them, instead using meditation and therapy to try and prevent any of my low moods or deal with them as they appear. It was during this time I went from depressed working construction (despite being more than qualified for a junior position) to running a YC-backed startup as my first programming job.

I am convinced that “religion” is the cure for most of these illnesses. Learning to be mindful and how to cope combined with open discussion about them goes a long way. But alas there is now an industrial complex around medication being the solution for this stuff.

For what is worth, one of the smartest, most amazing people I met was bipolar. From the outside he really had his shit together.

> I am convinced that “religion” is the cure for most of these illnesses.

Can you expand?

I can. By religion I just mean traditional theories of mind. For instance Buddhism has a lot of techniques to help you gain a clear mind and control it and most eastern philosophies use this to treat bad thoughts and triggers as “demons” which mindfulness can help to ignore or control. I say this as someone who a year or so ago was anti religious and the type to think it was all just dumb superstition.

Obviously there are extremes, but most people don’t suffer from these extremes. Now days we give pills to people immediately when I really think they should be a last resort. Instead it seems most people only resort to mindful coping skills once they get burned out on side effects.

You point out low mood. Does it help for hypomania?

In my small experience, it seems like people with bp2 are more aware of their condition than those with bp1 tend to be. What you describe sounds pretty scary when i think about it for someone i know with bp1. But it's totally something they might say when manic to avoid treatment.

Yes it does help with hypomania. A big part of mania in general is the ego and tons of philosophies (especially the mindful ones) help you to control and curate a more healthy ego. Buddhism in particular stresses letting go and thinking rationally about how our suffering is caused by clinging to things (and meditation helps to see these things as they come and go.) This has helped me to beat my once serious anger issues I would experience during hypomania

It absolutely gets better.

I took a heroic shroom dose and had a life alteringly bad experience. It left me a shell of my former self dealing with crippling anxiety and worse for years.

It got better with time, therapy, and focusing on health and wellness.

Professional help can really be a major catalyst for healing.

I have now fully recovered, feel better than ever and have a great life.

People must realize there is always light at the end of the tunnel.

Exact same experience here. When I was in my early 20s. It derailed my life completely at the time but everything got back on track in a couple of years.

Exactly same experience here when I was about 14, from a single time taking mushrooms.

Like the OP, I was convinced at the time I had some irreparable damage, as I was so seeing after-images and static on walls and felt extremely disassociated/anxious, but it was probably more garden variety anxiety than I admitted at the time. Constantly fixating on your thoughts because you think you're losing it is enough to make life pretty stressful. I got therapy and slowly forgot about it.

I still have some HPPD symptoms, but interestingly those (and the anxiety) only started after I began looking for them after reading about them online a week or two after the incident, so I've always been curious if anyone can turn off their brain's filter enough to notice them if they tried.

> The one piece of advice that has helped me is the thinking that "I'm not the first one to ever go through this, and I won't be the last." No matter if you're fucked in the head, going bankrupt, getting divorced - whatever - you aren't alone and you can either find a solution or find acceptance.

That's good advice, but unfortunately it also applies to situations like "being put to death."

Maybe my response seems flippant, but it's the core reason I was never able to internalize platitudes. There doesn't seem to be any nuanced or precise advice.

Interestingly, one of the most effective for me was dang's: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110096

He probably didn't mean it as philosophical advice, but when I read it, I burst out laughing and never really stopped. When things get tough, I just shrug and try to embrace it. After all, things can always get worse.

If you take an attitude of "I wonder how bad things can get?" then you tend to discover that there's an upper bound on most forms of badness, which did make me feel better.

E.g. it's hard to imagine a shot at the dentist getting much worse than the worst pain you've ever experienced in your life. So if you've already felt something worse, you can calibrate your temporary expectations and snap yourself out of fear loops.

A shot at the dentist isn't so bad, but mental loops can be. So if you're in an anxiety spiral, compare it to the worst emotional distress you've ever felt, and see if it's worse. If it's worse, switch to physical pain. I'm able to stay in a good mood when I'm nauseous thanks to having had one of the worst illnesses I've ever had, a few months ago. Headaches and queasiness feels small in comparison.

> That's good advice, but unfortunately it also applies to situations like "being put to death."

This may come as a surprise, but we should be able to face death calmly as well, knowing full well it affects everyone in due time.

It is more reliable than any other situation such as divorce, psychotic breakdown, sickness, loss of loved one....

I can't imagine being calm facing death, but I don't see is as a contradiction to say we can face divorce and death calmly and with equanimity knowing others have and will go through it.

Unfortunately, if one allows oneself to believe that too much, it's mental permission to commit suicide. After all, committing suicide is just as much a valid task as anything else, like writing a book or making a chair. It's an extremely hard one, too. But since others have and will go through it, as you say, it becomes that much easier. Especially when you're resolved to face it calmly and equanimously.

I disagree 100%.

Nobody would say that someone who is weathering the death of a loved one would have in fact been OK killing that person, or even secretly wished for their death.

It's no different with self. You can want to live, and still accept the finitude of life.

It's supposed to make life sweeter when you accept completely that it may end at any moment.

That's quite an interpretation.

I suppose "memento mori" can be argued in the worst sense as leading to nihilism. However, it'd be impossible to say anything of substance if we were constantly trying to avoid any worst-case interpretations. Most reasonable people can surely understand there's a difference between the colloquial usage of death versus suicide.

It’s not a worst case interpretation. It’s a relief to go.

I think it’s not possible to understand unless you know the feeling. You’re right that most people don’t. But many do: Robin Williams, David Foster Wallace, Aaron Swartz.

I don’t claim to speak for them, but if any of them used it as an escape — which seems somewhat likely - then they’re examples that the logic can be turned against someone strong, using their strength against them by encouraging them to accept the inevitability with composure.

You’ll have to take my word that there are many more of us than those famous examples, though.

It's risky to presume that most people are unfamiliar with the feeling.

About 3.8% of the world population, or about 300 million people are affected by depression (WHO 2021). It seems safe to assume that (1) the true figure is under-reported and (2) those affected are connected to others who can also deeply relate in some way.

Personally, I know all too what what that feeling is like. The solution for me was finding people who could speak truth with love, and just time. Knowing that we're all in the same boat gives me more -- not less -- reason to make the ride count.

There are a lot of other benefits to the attitude of: "I'm not the first one to ever go through this, and I won't be the last."

It's a great way to put things into perspective. It also helps relieve some psychological presure. It also doesn't require buying into any supernatural belief systems. This is a big plus if you're not inclined towards supernatural explanations.

I think that the biggest benefit is that this attitude helps make people more compassionate towards others. And it naturally becomes more general if you work at it a bit... If you're not to only one to go through whatever difficult situation in particular, maybe others have gone through the same thing. Maybe other people have gone through similar stuff, too. After a while it becomes easier to extend that out to seeing that people suffer in ways that I can't quite understand right now. And it starts from the understanding that I'm not alone going through this, whatever it is. I becomes easier to see that people deserve understanding, or compassion, or even some actual help.

Helping others in need can become a deeply rewarding aspect of your life. It might not fix things, it won't cure a serious depression or whetever. But it can make thing a lot better for you and others.

Also, I thr to keep in mind that no one is in prison, no one has cancer, no one is dead. The situation might have some real negative potential, and is worth addressing, and it's also, in some sense, workable. There are real problems that can be addressed, and fixed in real life. Start small and work towards a solution, for youself and others.

How did you end up overdosing like that? What's the story, there?

Also, how disruptive is the visual snow on a day-to-day basis? And does it attenuate a bit over time?

In case anyone else here isn't a druggie and wanted some context: According to Dr. Search Engine, MD, 2-5 milligrams is a "micro" dose, and 10-20 is a normal dose

> How did you end up overdosing like that? What's the story, there?

As someone who have over/under-dosed a couple of times when I was younger: dealer says they give you 100mg, so in order to take 25mg without having a scale, you divide it into two piles and then those two piles, take one of them.

Problem occurs when dealer fucked up somehow and actually gave you 200mg, so now you end up taking 50mg, double the intended dosage.

Other ways of fucking up is believing you got 2CB when actually you got 2CP, or something similar like that, so the dose you thought was light/moderate, ended up being a heavy one, or vice-versa. Hence you should always start smaller than you think and wait for some hours :)

I don't think I've ever overdosed at the scale that parent did, but it is possible to fuck up, especially without having accurate scales.

You should never consume a powerful mind-altering psychedelic without exactly knowing the dose you are taking.

You should never take a large dose without first studying the effects that lower doses have on your mind and body.

The only way this happens is through carelessness and ignorance. Don't blame the guy above you for fucking up when you're fucking up equally bad by not measuring yourself and following established protocol.

> Other ways of fucking up is believing you got 2CB when actually you got 2CP

You should not purchase from sources you don't trust, and with a new dealer / batch you should always test the substance using a full kit, then take a small amount and wait, prior to consuming your intended dose.

This is all drug safety 101. You can explore your mind but you must first care about your body. If someone thinks, "but I don't have time, I want to get high now, then they should not be taking drugs, as they lack the proper maturity to do it safely.

> it is possible to fuck up

Only through carelessness and ignorance. The lack of drug safety in the scene today is absolutely appalling, given the availability of drug testing kits, crowdsourced information hubs, and cheap milligram scales.

> Don't blame the guy above you for fucking up when you're fucking up equally bad

I'm not blaming anyone, not the person above me nor myself. I'm just explaining how it can happen. I don't do much drugs anymore, and back when I did, there wasn't really any way of getting testing kits nor finding "established protocols" unless you knew actual people in the real world. The internet wasn't even a thing first time I tripped. Good luck finding "information hubs" or good scales as a private person back in those days.

There is a lot of assumption and "holier-than-thou" coming from your comment, but you have no idea about the context from what I'm writing. You'd be better off trying to want to understand, instead of preaching.

There's nothing holier-than-thou about my comment. Drug safety protocols (such as testing your product with small doses) have always existed in one form or another. PiHKAL and TiHKAL and the public library have existed before the internet. Making uninformed decisions with strong mind-altering substances which are active in the milligram range is a choice. The user is still responsible for their safety. Information was available to those who sought it then as it is now; and most people now still do not use the resources available to them.

We can definitely be safer than ever today and that might allow more room for experimentation. The fact is that if one had less information back then, they should evaluate whether taking drugs is worth the risk.

Eyeballing RCs is always a bad idea, but if you don't have a scale, a much better way is to dissolve it in a liquid, at a 'known' concentration, and measure that. Alcohol (vodka) usually works well for most stuff at 1mg/ml. That makes it easy to measure with a baby oral syringe or one of the plastic 5ml cups that comes with cough syrup. The vodka also prevents mold/bacteria growth in the solution if it sits for months.

Even with a scale, this is a better method for low mg dosing RCs. Unless you spend thousands on lab grade equipment, Amazon scales can't measure a few mg accurately, even if they claim that.

I’m 29 now and I can’t remember my thought process at the time just that I remember realizing what I measured out wasn’t correct but I also realized this while under the effects of the drug.

The snow is not constant and usually intensifies if I’m under stress. But it’s not very noticeable, it’s like film grain is how I would describe it. It’s gotten less and less over the years but it’s still there. Doesn’t bother me though

TIL that not everyone sees TV static and colourful artifacts. I’m glad to hear you are doing well. That is a serious journey.

Wow 110mg is an enormous amount. Glad to hear you’re doing better.

> When I was 23, I misdosed myself and took 110mg of 4-AcO-DMT.

Are you sure that was "micro" dosing?

It doesn't sound so micro. And this says it's at least an order of magnitude larger dosage than a microdose would be.

https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing/dmt/

>misdosed

The part you quoted doesn't say micro. Spell it out.

I read micro dosing the first time also. Somewhat out of habit when there is cognitive dissonance, I reread it and saw what it actually said. Usually this feature of my mind helps me to read quickly, but it comes with side effects :)