The Right Not to Be Fun at Work | Hacker News Reader

The Right Not to Be Fun at Work

newyorker.com

64 pointsfortran7721 comments

> “There was a strong incentive and even obligation to consume alcohol,” Galy said. Monsieur T. alleges that he was subjected to “humiliating and intrusive practices such as the simulation of sexual acts, the obligation to share a bed with a colleague during seminars, the usage of nicknames and the posting in the office of deformed and doctored photographs.”

I have seen managers that does not realize that employees laugh at their bad jokes not because are funny but because they feel obligated. This seems a company-wide case of not understanding the power relationship with the employees.

> Work fun is fine, but it is a poor substitute for the attributes that make a workplace truly attractive: job stability, proper benefits, equal pay, prospects for advancement, flexibility, a respectful and well-resourced environment.

That is a reasonable conclusion.

If they are the only ones making bad jokes, sure. If it’s the whole team doing it it becomes less of a power dynamic issue.

An article that focuses more on the... problematic aspects of the work situation: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/11/court-declares-legal-right-t...

> I have seen managers that does not realize that employees laugh at their bad jokes not because are funny but because they feel obligated.

I don’t think it’s not realizing it, pretty sure it’s on purpose.

I think that too, just to enjoy the power they have

I am also not a big fun of such events, it feels like overtime, plus the obligation to do dumb activities as "team building".

Wow, naive, but I didn't even know companies would ever put you in a shared hotel room? Nothing actually wrong with it I guess, I just assumed that legal would freak out if it was even suggested.

It may be ok for some, but I consider it flatly inappropriate and would make other arrangements

Why? When I worked in support and services at my big tech company, everyone below staff level had to have a roommate at our annual conference. My wife’s business encourages people to double up as well.

A company I worked for 20 years ago tried to save money by foisting that policy off on us, and I flat-out refused. I don't remember what reasons I gave them, but I still remember the shuddering feeling of tightness across my upper back when I thought about it.

The article says sharing a bed, not just sharing a hotel room. Which I find hard to believe.

>the obligation to share a bed with a colleague during seminars

This is one of the big benefits for remote work. There is a lot less potential for harassment (sexual or otherwise).

Archived: https://archive.ph/1b8il

>Nobody wants a field trip at the expense of a generous vacation allowance

Well that's a false dichotomy if I ever saw one.

It also sounds like the French guy was fired for being a miserable person to work with, not because he didn't enjoy a Friday trip to the bowling alley enough.

I agree one should not be fired for not attending a team-builder, but one should not be surprised if that reflects on your ability to, frankly, be socially acceptable and either be human to coworkers OR be able to put up with benign, if banal, activities occasionally as a signal that you are socially competent. Social competency is important as a leader or manager, particularly.

Why can't he simply be judged on his "social competency" within working hours? Organising team builders and socials outside of contract hours is weird and vaguely feudal.

I don't know; it's hard to tell from this article.

This in particular stood out to me:

> The biggest problem, his lawyer, Isabelle Galy, told me, was that the company culture involved a lot of drinking. “There was a strong incentive and even obligation to consume alcohol,”

There have definitely been companies where I've avoided such "activities" because they devolved in to unhinged piss-ups and I was "made" to drink shots (I like a good beer or wine, but I don't like shots at all).

I like a good drink, but I hate forcing alcohol on people and don't like it when people drunkenly start smashing stuff.

To say nothing of:

> Monsieur T. alleges that he was subjected to “humiliating and intrusive practices such as the simulation of sexual acts, the obligation to share a bed with a colleague during seminars, the usage of nicknames and the posting in the office of deformed and doctored photographs.”

Basically: don't be surprised of not everyone likes your "team building" activities if they're frat boy piss-ups.

I'm a teetotaler, so by your assessment I'm a miserable person to work with? I point this out because I've had to deal with this at my current job and luckily they don't push it with me and respect my no-alcohol position whenever we go out to eat after work. I can't imagine working for any company that demands that I become a drunkard off-hours as a "team building" exercise.

I don't drink either and absolutely no one cares at these type of functions.

I can't even imagine pressure to drink in 2023 in the US at an after work event. It is hardly a kegger with everyone chanting "chug chug chug" or you aren't part of the group.

> Social competency is important as a leader or manager, particularly.

Who gets to arbitrate social competence, and by what factors?

Sales extroverts.

Everyone; the group. Hence the social part.

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