Acting out dreams predicts Parkinson’s and other brain diseases | Hacker News Reader

Acting out dreams predicts Parkinson’s and other brain diseases

scientificamerican.com

92 pointsbenbreen25 comments

Funny this has been known for a long time!

  "Descriptions of dream enactment by people with Parkinson’s are as old as recognition of the disease itself. In James Parkinson’s original description, “An Essay on the Shaking Palsy,” published in 1817, he wrote: “Tremulous motions of the limbs occur during sleep, and augment until they awaken the patient, and frequently with much agitation and alarm.” But despite similar reports over the next two centuries, the connection between dreams and disease remained obscure—so much so that Alda had to convince his neurologist to do a brain scan for Parkinson’s after he read about the link in a 2015 news article."

This isn't just recognition of disease though. Its a prediction that you might get that disease in future.

> Apart from being hazardous to dreamers and their partners, RBD may foreshadow neurodegenerative disease, primarily synucleinopathies—conditions in which the protein α-synuclein (or alpha-synuclein) forms toxic clumps in the brain.

Funny this is on HN's front page, given that only a couple of days ago I had this dream I got stuck in an elevator and started to smash the doors trying to get out. I woke up and I had just smashed the bedroom window with my bare hands.

I have pretty bad sleep habits, but never had that happened to me (AFAIK, given that I live on my own). That day I was sleep-deprived (3 hours of sleep on the night before), and had exercised a lot (I'm an athlete).

I'm only 27, but I'm still a bit freaked out about the possibility of this being an early sign of some neurodegenerative disease.

These phenomena aren’t completely absent in healthy people from time to time.

If it becomes a pattern you should check it out. If it happens from time to time over your life it’s not a big deal.

These phenomena are also common in young children as they grow up, too.

> That day I was sleep-deprived (3 hours of sleep on the night before), and had exercised a lot (I'm an athlete).

This is the obvious explanation. I know it likely goes without saying, but 3 hours of sleep is a major risk factor for health problems, including degenerative neurological disease if sustained. If you’re experiencing weird sleep/wake relayed symptoms after only sleeping 3 hours, the obvious explanation is sleep deprivation. Don’t even consider other explanations until you get back to a healthy sleep habit, which is hopefully soon.

Also, I’m sure you know this, but 3 hours of sleep is going to offset much or perhaps all of the benefit of intense exercise. Skip the gym and get some sleep if you must. It will be a net win.

If you're male, then on the plus side you're leaving the age window for typical onset of schizophrenia. (OTOH, if you're female, you're kind of in the middle of that window :(

Yikes, were you okay when you snapped out of it? Glass (and ceramic) shards are remarkably sharp and dangerous.

Ask me how I know..

Peter Attia had a recent episode about neurodegenerative disease, they talk about dream enactment quite a bit, great discussion:

https://peterattiamd.com/kellyannniotis/

Headline is a bit unclear, I initially thought it was talking about being awake and showing other people what happened in your dream, like a theatre production. Turns out, it’s just (what non scientists would see as) sleepwalking.

>Turns out, it’s just sleepwalking

The piece explicitly states that it is not sleepwalking:

>Not all nocturnal behaviors are RBD. Sleepwalking and sleep talking, which occur more often during childhood and adolescence, take place during non-REM sleep. This difference is clearly distinguishable in a sleep laboratory, where clinicians can monitor stages of sleep to see when a person moves.

I think laypeople would not make this distinction.

Don't dreams occur during REM sleep? I am a frequent sleep walker and the times I've been awoken by someone else I was in mid-dream.

Thanks, clarified.

People who have RBD should not despair, not only there are many ongoing clinical trials, but there are very interesting research done to reverse Parkinson, such as this one:

https://journals.lww.com/neurotodayonline/Fulltext/2020/0806...

It should also be noted that this can be a side effect of some drugs and even supplements. If this happens to you and you're taking medication of any sort, let your doctor sort it out. Don’t assume you have a neurodegenerative disease.

It can also be a symptom of withdrawal from alcohol and other drugs.

I didn't know about this. Would you be able to link any relevant articles or studies for interested parties?

Do you know what supplements have this as a side effect?

Supplements in general are very poorly studied relative to prescription drugs. Supplements have also become more powerful in recent years as vendors start producing more potent extracts or even synthesizing what are basically unregulated pharmaceuticals. Some of the supplements on the market in the US are even derived from prescription drugs in other countries which haven’t been approved here as medications.

So it’s impossible to say. If you start experiencing troubling symptoms, it’s wise to discontinue supplements for a while to check if the symptoms persist.

A good rule of thumb is that if it makes you feel energetic or relaxed, there’s a high likelihood that it could be associated with sleep disturbance. A lot of the problems coming out of supplement enthusiasts are related to rebound from the supplements when they wear off, so keep that in mind too. What goes up must come down.

Started to log as many dreams I can recall mornings on driary.com - wish to index dreams or other possible imagery patterns.

I think durring sleep brain has lot of reparing work to do, similar to mechanic in garage for night shift.

> other underlying condition

or trauma in combination with anxiety disorder causing you to have panic attacks in the night

Aren't these separate things? They seem to be referencing a distinct acting out of specific motions in dreams. Something separate from an unstructured reaction to stress/terror etc.

yes, true

but for a random person the symptoms can look very very similar and you might not be able to differentiate them without going to a sleep lab

a panic attack during sleep can put you into a state where you are temporary confused enough to be somewhat stuck between dream and reality making you act similar as to someone "acting out dreams".

For example in your dream you might be targeted by snipers and then wake up with a panic attack and still dive into cover besides your bed, like you would have done in your dream.

Predicts yes, but does it offer any cure? It is terrible for a person to have his abilities being reduced at a rate and knowing each tomorrow is worse than today. People do not seem to care though.

My mom recently died of Parkinson's (more or less anyway).

One of her symptoms was complete denial that anything was wrong with her (My understanding it that this isn't uncommon). For instance, she had become bedridden and was quite weak, and during a larger group visit commented that someone had put sand in her clothes. She was entirely serious.

I couldn't really see that she had any quality of life towards the end. My uncle made the very good point that it was pretty hard to say what her subjective experience really was.

The denial can be a real issue. There is an anti-psychotic (Nuplazid) that did her quite a lot of good, but she started to think it was the cause of the problems she was having!

The article discusses the possibility that earlier identification can possibly make treatments more effective, and that exercise may be effective in slowing the progression.

Preparation, in absence of treatment, is still extremely valuable.

Financials, lifestyle and logistics, helpers for the family, your loved ones mentally and emotionally steeling themselves.

Every responsible adult does this, by the way; the rest leave a mess for their family to handle when they pass away (old age, accident, etc.).

But great preparation requires knowing what’s coming or likely to come, as we generally have limited time and resources.

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