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Comment by elihu | Hacker News Reader

I think a great option if we really want to build a better mouse is to replace the scroll wheel with something TrackPoint-like.

Scroll wheels are a ridiculous interface that we tolerate because they're useful, but if we had a better alternative I think they'd quickly go extinct and no one would miss them. The problem with scroll wheels is that you end up scrolling up and down in a jerky fashion because you have to reposition your finger constantly. With a TrackPoint style control, or something like the spring-loaded pitch-bend wheel on most MIDI keyboards, you don't have to reposition your finger and can just scroll.

I haven't investigated what's involved in building a custom mouse these days, but it's kind of tempting.

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This already existed. The IBM/Lenovo ScrollPoint mouse.

I seem to remember using the original one 20+ years ago, which was literally just a TrackPoint where a scrollwheel was on a mouse. But I think the 2.0 version was more popular.

https://linustechtips.com/blogs/entry/2091-scrollpoint-ibms-...

The early "TrackPoint Mouse" had a regular Trackpoint. ScrollPoint had a bigger knob shaped more like a mousebutton. There were several models with different shaped mouse bodies.

A problem is that you'll need drivers to use them, or some hack to turn down the scrolling sensitivity. If you just plug one in, it will scroll much too fast. They had been made before Microsoft's high-precision scrolling extension to the USB HID protocol: the default is 24 detents/revolution which is not enough for scrollpoint.

Huh, I'd never seen those and that's pretty much exactly what I want. I figured my idea was too obvious to be original, but wondered if someone had created a failed product based on a patented design, thus locking out anyone else from making the same thing. I don't know if IBM ever patented it, but that seems to fit. And since it was released in 1998, the patent (if there is one) is probably just recently expired.

TBH reaching back into the foggy recesses of my raving-addled-brain-from-the-90s, I never saw one other than when I worked on contract at IBM (Toronto, Don Mills office) in the fall of 1999. I seem to remember having one at my desk. The original TrackPoint version.

And I have a vague recollection of liking it, though I also remember my finger calloused a bit from its use. Like playing guitar.

I very like this one. We could be using zooming UI now if it had two joysticks: one for scroll, one for zooms (view and text or distance and perspective); three had the keyboard (one for cursor) - and what about one more (not on the mouse) for 'rotation', mean 4 2D analogues as default ?

>something like the spring-loaded pitch-bend wheel on most MIDI keyboards

That's a great idea! It would also have usable clicking, unlike today's scroll wheels where clicking ends up moving the scroll wheel or not clicking way too often.

I haven't had an issue with the scroll wheel clicker, or have any particular idea to improve upon it, unless one were to do away with the clicker entirely in favor of thumb buttons or maybe putting an extra button next to the scroll wheel instead of having the scroll wheel be the button.

There was one in the MX Revolution mouse (the one before the MX Master). The thumb wheel was spring loaded.

I prefer the free spinning MX Master thumb wheel. Having said that I've never enjoyed a trackpoint either, so I expect others would prefer it.

It's not supported in every application, but most web browsers & document browsers have some kind of middle-click autoscroll situation. You may have to toggle it On in the settings. Basically you middle-click once (or click & hold), a little scroll icon appears, and then the document scrolls based on how far your mouse cursor is from the scroll icon. Click again (or release) to stop scrolling. Functionally it's pretty similar to the pitch bend wheel you describe. Works great when it's available.

You must not have used any of logitech's MX mice. I don't remember the last time I had to constantly reposition my finger on the wheel to scroll.

Those look like they have standard scroll wheels, albeit maybe they're wide enough that you could get a continuous scroll by alternating between index and middle fingers. Am I missing something fundamentally unique about them?

A few Logitech mice have an automatically free-spinning scroll wheel. They call it "hyperscroll". They're the only ones with this technology.

My Logitech g500 from many years ago has a physical toggle for detent/freewheel scrolling, and I love it. Precise when I need it, and zooming up or down when I need speed.

That seems like an improvement, but not really what I'm talking about. I'd like a mouse where the scroll wheel is replaced with something you can apply pressure to, and as long as you apply pressure it continues to scroll -- no need for your finger to even let go of it. (Someone else pointed out that IBM released a mouse that works the way I'm describing a long time ago. It was kind of a commercial flop, partly due to IBM being slow to switch away from mechanical mouse balls to optical sensors.)

They have two modes of operation: the traditional one and a free-spinning one.

Once you use infinite scrolling you can’t go back

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