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Comment by jimbok | Hacker News Reader

Just last week MSFT nixed the accrual PTO benefit employees enjoyed and opted for the rouse of 'unlimited' PTO. Effectively, ending a liability/cash outlay they would pay when folks quit, or get fired. I hope those who were affected today receive severance that makes up for them losing this benefit.

-James

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My understanding is that the way they converted to unlimited PTO was by paying out people's vacation time with a one time payout.

In which case, they didn't lose benefit at all

They lost it going forward, and also lost any kind of arbitrage when paired with salary increases. Eg my accrued vacation is “worth” 10% more after a 10% salary bump than before it.

It also serves as a nice buffer when you are switching jobs - you can take the PTO and still be employed (& so covered by health insurance for a bit longer, and stocks are still vesting), making for a nice break from work.

So you have unlimited PTO, what’s stopping you from taking a vacation.

Discretionary <> unlimited, so the answer to your question most likely will be: "my manager".

Edit: props to Microsoft for not being scared to call the policy by its true name.

The payout will be in the April paycheck, but hopefully the layoffs will get it at layoff time.

When my company switched from accrued to unlimited PTO, the way they did it was to tell everyone that until their balance got down to zero, they needed to report their time off. So if you quit before you got your balance down to zero, you had it paid out, but most people probably just burned through their balance within a year or so and the liability was gone.

Wow, that’s shitty. Because you could simply have taken the same time off under unlimited PTO as by burning down the accrual, the company effectively zeroed out accrued vacation time. I’d be pissed that happened to me.

I mean, in real terms, I've come out way ahead since I get a lot more PTO now and probably wouldn't have cashed much (if any) out when quitting regardless. If the alternate was to keep my measly PTO allowance but still get the possibility of cashing it out someday when I quit, I am definitely happier this way.

I had a friend who actually took the “unlimited PTO” thing at face value when he was fresh out of college and joined a cool tech company. He was literally traveling every 2-3 weeks and bragging about it. He was let go for performance reasons within 6 months lol.

All accrued vacation balance got paid out when Microsoft made the switch.

payout will be in April's paycheck. I was a little surprised about the difference on when the accrual stops (mid Jan) and when balance will be paid out - in April. Laying off people before April payout explains some of this difference (maybe all?).

Presumably they still need to make the payout because it's an accrued employee benefit on the books. Not doing so would be illegal--at least in a lot of places.

This scenario is specifically listed in the FAQ. Anyone who leaves or is terminated between now and April will still receive the vacation payout.

Doubt it, they're still accrued and owed.

> Effectively, ending a liability/cash outlay they would pay when folks quit, or get fired

This was effective yesterday, and they paid off any remaining pto balance. I initially thought this would be an employee retention effort in the midst of low promotions and raises, but in was probably wrong. I don't know what gives.

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