Using paleogenomics to elucidate 10k years of immune system evolution
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It's sort of a pet peeve of mine that the immune system doesn't mean what most people seem to think it means.* However, it's already been established that certain mutations -- even deadly mutations -- are more common due to improving odds of survival against specific infections that swept specific regions historically.
So, "survival of the fittest" doesn't mean what a lot of people think it means. It's rooted in a winnowing process where those who don't die get to pass on their genes. That's all it means.
Cystic fibrosis is a predominantly Caucasian genetic disorder. Studies suggest this is so because, like Sickle Cell protects against malaria, it protects against tuberculosis and I think one other disease but I'm not remembering which one nor readily finding a reference.
Cystic fibrosis carriership and tuberculosis: hints toward an evolutionary selective advantage based on data from the Brazilian territory
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28499359/
Cystic fibrosis gene protects against tuberculosis
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10013-cystic-fibrosis...
So this is already fairly well established. Cystic fibrosis is an inflammatory condition, which fits with their observations.
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* ..."the immune system" doesn't really mean a specific set of organs like "the circulatory system" or "the digestive system" means a specific set of organs. It's just kind of a catch phrase for "how the body protects itself" and it's not really that well understood or explained exactly that happens.
Cholera and typhoid fever are other candidates: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2358959/
I recall reading long time ago that carriers of CF are hypothesized to be more resistant against cholera.
> Of course, fitness is a relative thing. A genotype’s fitness depends on the environment in which the organism lives. The fittest genotype during an ice age, for example, is probably not the fittest genotype once the ice age is over.
―https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolution-101/mechanisms-the-...
In fact, several microbes have been found to have anti-cancer properties - either directly of by stimulating the immune system. So maybe success in tackling pathogens led to a deficit in combatting the enemy within.
Otherwise, it's not exactly clear why the ability to fight off pathogens (foreign bodies) would necessarily lead to an increase in autoimmunity (attacking your own cells).
W. Bush and F. Fehleisen found back in the 1800's that patients accidentally infected with with Streptococcus pyogenes often had regressions in solid tumors.
William Coley's refined this and came with Coley's toxins, which when they worked, worked really well but comes with its own risks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coley%27s_toxins https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1888599/ https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-1-6170-5273...
I think many mycobacterium species also have this effect. Also, bacterial extracts such as the BCG vaccine are used for bladder cancer.
More modern strategies try to take advantage of the bacteria's ability to home to the inside of solid tumors in order to deliver a toxic payload to directly kill tumor cells, or molecules which locally wake up the immune system. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7264239/ https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/synlogic-presents-d... Maybe the clinical results weren't so great though since they seem to have removed it from the website https://www.synlogictx.com/pipeline/.
If you count viruses as microbes, then there are people working on viruses that kill tumors as well (oncolytic viruses).
There are two main factors to our immune system that protect us:
1) all our cells are marked uniquely and exactly the same across every cell in our body. Every human, and I think every animal, has this same feature where all cells are marked the same. But unless there was an immune system to enforce this, it has no value. If it were random you would expect every cell to be marked randomly but it’s not.
2) our immune system is designed to attack anything that isn’t marked with that unique identification. If we had random identification per cell, the immune system we have couldn’t be created.
This system couldn’t be designed separately. It’s essentially a single transaction two-step evolution that simply couldn’t have been done randomly at different points in time. If you created an immune system that attacked things that weren’t marked the cell across all cells, the organism would die because the immune system would attack itself the way transplant patients would. The immune system we have couldn’t be created unless all the cells were marked the same.
Both parts (unique identification are the same across all cells, and the immune system that attacks any other things that aren’t marked the same) must have been created at the same time.
If anyone has any counter arguments I would love to hear it because I’ve been thinking about this long and hard during Covid and couldn’t think of anything else.
You're also confusing the randomness of the steps with the somewhat previsible trend of an entire ecosystem which is evolving. If world is getting warmer and air more dense, you wouldn't be able to guess which mutation occurs but you can predict in time animals would be more adapt to that new ecosystem.
Darwin famously looked at a unusual orchid with a long "tube" leading to nectar, and spoke that "there must be a bird with a long beak here somewhere". He didn't find it at first, but it was discovered later [1]. So you can apply some predictions at how evolution took place if you take a look at the environment. Just as one would guess there must be an immune system in animals if you discover diseases, virus, bacteria etc - or else how would large animals exist?
The adaptive immune system is the one that runs a mini-evolution within your own body as way to counter the extremely rapid rate of evolution in pathogens. There are a few explanations as to how this came about - see my last comment.
Paradoxically, it may be the very success of our immune system which puts selective pressure on pathogens to evolve even faster.
The acquired immune system: a vantage from beneath https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15539148/
Could you kindly explain? From the beginning. I’m trying to gain “top-to-bottom” understanding of what we’re discussing.
Also, what was the reason behind placing “immune system” in quotation marks and negating its existence per my reference of it, but delineating it in the format that you did subsequently? I’m trying to figure out where I erred in my choice of words.
Technically, the "immune system" should include anything that prevents pathogenesis (disease).
This would include behavioral things like avoiding people who look sick, and the tendency for sick people to stay indoors as a a population-level adaptation which prevents the spread of microbes.
Neuro-immunology is in fact a burgeoning field and for example we now know that many macrophages in the spleen (typically though to be an immune organ) are in contact with the nervous system, though it's not clear yet what the purpose of this is. Kind of related: some kinds of voluntary meditation can affect the extent of inflammation in the body triggered by bacterial toxins (https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1322174111).
If we limit the "immune system" to the parts of the body that directly interacts with microbes, then we still have to split it up into at least two buckets - the innate and the adaptive immune system. The innate immune system recognizes broad categories of molecular patterns which are often found on pathogens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathogen-associated_molecular_...) or of molecules which result from tissue damage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damage-associated_molecular_pa...) and reacts very quickly to try to clear the infection/recruit repair molecules.
The innate immune system then recruits the adaptive immune system which takes about 2 weeks. In jawed vertebrates, the adaptive immune system contains a humongous and diverse repertoire of cells which are randomly generated using VDJ recombination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V(D)J_recombination), and if you are lucky then one of these cells in your body will recognize the pathogen and clone itself to form an army which will clear the disease. A small portion of these clones will then hang around in your body so that the next time you see a similar disease, they are already primed to respond to the infection. This is called immunological memory. The flip-side to this, which many people forget, is immunological tolerance. That means that if the foreign cell you encountered did not cause you any damage, then the next time you see it you will actually react to it even less than the first time. Technically, tolerance is also a form of immunological memory since the second response depends on the first one. Because of this tolerance, "foreignness" is often not enough to induce an immune response other than tolerance, and this is the reason that vaccines require something called an adjuvant, which tricks the immune system into thinking there is danger associated with the foreign body.(https://www.jci.org/articles/view/119978).
Tolerance is critical to keeping around the 'good bacteria' which perform useful functions all over your body such as fermenting fibers into short-chain fatty acids, and taking up niche space so that more greedy bacteria don't invade.
Going back to your question: "How can natural selection account for that?"
The innate immune system can be accounted for in the same way as everything else in biology - variation within populations of individuals selected for individuals which could recognize pathogens. The selective pressure was created by the pathogens themselves.
The adaptive immune system is more complex, since it involves running a mini-evolution within each individuals in the population which then selects for cells which can specifically respond to the pathogen you are infected with (like brute-forcing a password). The origins of this system are debated, but I have not encountered anything which suggests that natural selection could not generate such a system. You have to keep in mind that you can often get 'jumps' in cellular functionality when pieces of viruses insert themselves in random parts of the chromosome. Viruses already have the ability to generate extreme diversity when they replicate within our bodies. So the thought is that one of our ancestors by chance had its reproductive cells infected by a virus in the exact region where an innate immune receptor existed, which gave this receptor the ability to generate new versions of itself during its lifetime. Natural selection would definitely be involved, because the virus probably inserted itself into lots of individuals in the population but in parts of the chromosome which did not lend themselves to creating this diversity in immune receptors. Hence, those individuals were selected out of the population, leaving the ones which had an ability to run this 'inner evolution' which we call the adaptive immune system.
It is kind of poignant that the solution to the age old problem of infection (adaptive immune system) likely resulted from a viral infection. Conversely, the adaptive immune system now works so well that it is probably selecting for even more sophisticated microbes which trick and evade it (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15539148/). Which is all natural selection..
Some of the links in my previous comment might be useful to you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34405898
Edit: oh and technically it's much more complicated than that. The mucus layers which line your intestinal epithelium also play a key role in making sure that one bacteria cannot come along and chew up all of the nutrients. This is done by constantly generating new unique glycan (sugar) structures, so that the "wall" which separates us from our intestinal microbes never looks the same on any given day or time: https://academic.oup.com/gastro/article/7/1/3/5305718. This would probably fall in the innate immune system bucket.
It's always been small scale, the whole time.
Otherwise you'd have the bizarre discontinuities that people like to straw-man evolution with. Like a fish that just decides to walk out of the ocean and breathe air one day.
Later on, a billion or so years later after the system of cell surface proteins have grown in complexity, imagine a multicellular organism like a sponge, where the ocean flows freely through the inner compartment, helped along by simple differentiated cells containing primitive cilia/flagella. Some of the cells that line the wall of the inner compartment become proto-macrophages, capable of "eating" foreign objects that flow through. The context here is that the immune system has deep ties with the digestive system evolutionarily. So, a ton of the functionality of the immune system has an overlap with the digestive system... "self vs not self" goes way back.
1. unique to each individual cell
2. unique to the organism, but identical among its cells (i.e. cells descending from the same egg cell)
3. identical among all members of the species, or even across species
Any immune system will necessarily evolve to use the attributes from group #2. If it were to use #1, the organism dies. If it were to use #3, then rogue cells from other compatible organisms can infiltrate and steal the organism’s resources, which is evolutionarily disadvantageous (unless it’s a beneficial relationship, c.f. gut microbiome).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity
is a good starting point, of course you can also just google 'intelligent design' and go from there.
Showing quite clearly how incremental beneficial change leads to the development of complex features.
But it will never matter to creationists: https://creation.com/the-design-of-tears-an-example-of-irred....
(Don't even bother with that last link.)
They'll always just build another straw man.
But to continue your analogy, it doesn't need to be a two-step process. You can start with an immune system and "randomly marked" cells (they're not random, but say they are). Millions of cells are created by your body every second. The cells that are marked "incorrectly" will die off, leaving those the immune system recognizes to continue reproducing. Overtime the remaining cells DNA will only contain instructions to create new cells "marked" to not provoke an immune response.
Why is one such counterexample so unthinkable a process to you?
Entire organs not just cells would die. It needs changes in two separate systems, the cellular system and the immune system, and it has to occur randomly.
You are confused because you are looking at the final result and not how the system came about.
The two systems can be randomly initialized and it will all converge together to a working system over time. And again one can bet it's not really random, aspects of DNA "initialization" happen even before gestation (mitosis) phase. And then during fetus growth all of this can still be developed independently and converge over time.
I am speaking from a layman's perspective and even I can surmise many such counterexamples that may explain how the immune system came to be.
I again reiterate that you seem to be operating on an incomplete understanding of not just the immune system, but how evolution and embryonic development works.
You may want to read this: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41390-022-01940-0
> The initiation of hematopoiesis from the yolk sac of human embryo, formation of the bone marrow, and all the immune cells produced from it begins at 5 weeks of gestation, which stimulate mass production of immune cells in the following weeks to boost the immune system
The fact that the MHC regions is so diverse is just another layer of security which prevents major biases within the population in the presentation of chopped up bits of foreign and self antigens. However if we all had the same MHC, the function of the adaptive immune system would remain intact. Plus, we would be able to transplant organs between people much more easily.
The basis for the existence of these varied adaptive immune receptors which perform the recognition of self vs non-self is under investigation and you might want to read up on the latest research before jumping to conclusions: https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/6084782
If I remember correctly though, one of the major hypotheses is that an ancestor of the HIV or similar virus or transposon integrated itself within the gametes of some jawed fish without killing it, resulting in the ability to generate variation in immune receptors. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7584143/
Oh, and there is not just one way to have an adaptive immune system, as even jawless fish have a way of rearranging their receptors to generate diversity: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15241406/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805090/
In sum, the only GOD we have evidence for around in the Generation of Diversity. https://www.nature.com/articles/430157a