Canadians are now stealing overpriced food from grocery stores with zero remorse
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It’s embarrassing, and the sale of Shaw to Rogers is only going to make things worse.
We need some 95-99% reductions in pricing. 50% doesn't cut it.
Paying 20-25% more per bottle than Americans is something you get used to but it repeatedly sucks to watch bartending youtube or read books and not being able to make something because it's not sold in Ontario. Quebec is slightly better (the french know how to drink) - but even there if you want to buy Yellow Chartreuse, which is in a ton of cocktails, you need to basically own a bar + a liquor license to get access to the full inventory.
There's a million small details that make living in America easier (and way cheaper). Especially when you're into any niche hobby. /rant
Some BC Scotch bar got in trouble for this: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fets-whisky-...
We don't just have national trade restrictions, but provincial ones too.
P.S. Where the bottles only 20-25% more expensive in Canada than US?
I never spent the time to really compare. I'm curious what the real number is.
Almost everything is automatically 20% more expensive in Canada so I just assumed.
> [The] report concludes that there is “little evidence to suggest grocers in Canada and the United States are colluding or taking advantage of the current food inflationary wave the western world is experiencing.”
So I guess despite tptacek claim that Canada is unique the high prices and the gov-backed monopoly problem is not a new thing, it's just compounded on top of the (predicted post-COVID) inflation issues.
Another lesson in: always doubt convenient narratives in the media...
Maybe it's due to preferring non-discount brands?
> While 33.0% of Canadians buy privately labelled products all the time, 53.6% of Canadians will buy them occasionally. Based on our estimates, the average Canadian grocery shopper will spend $821 buying privately labelled food products this year, which is likely the highest amount ever. Canada’s Food Price Report 2022 predicted that the average adult in Canada will spend about $3,500 on food this year.
> Therefore, we estimate that about 23.4% of the budget spent at the grocery store is intended to purchase privately labelled food products. Again, this is likely the highest level recorded yet in Canada, and we are expecting that percentage to increase in 2023. This is probably due to higher food prices, as grocery shoppers seek refuge with lower-priced brands [2]
It seems that there are still lower priced alternatives. So those who prefer organic/higher quality food products are paying the highest premium.
So it's possibly you haven't changed your shopping preferences because you prefer higher quality (and probably healthier alternatives) than a price-conscious consumer who fell back on buying "no-name" brands, which fall under "private label" aka bigco discount brands.
For the record I don't mean to downplay the impact on inflation and higher food prices of the average Canadian family.
[1] https://www.dal.ca/sites/agri-food/research/greedflation-3.h...
[2] https://cdn.dal.ca/content/dam/dalhousie/pdf/sites/agri-food...
Edit: I should note I edited this comment quite a bit for clarity 10min after posting
Later my mom said her and my sister (who has kids) have both been going to No Frills more often and have been avoiding more expensive items. She listed off 5 vegetables/fruit she doesn't buy anymore. So when you have to stretch each dollar you definitely pay attention to details like that.
Markets always adapt when prices hike... some people are just slower to notice.
I was blown away the first time that I visited a Duane Reade on a gentrified Korea town block and saw the locked freezers and anti-theft devices.
They get their food from McDonalds, Dollar General and Taco Bell.
You can argue that stores ought not raise the prices, you can argue that the law ought to not consider shoplifting a crime, but neither of those conditions are the case, so your moral stance ends up being a material cost to the very people you claim to be fighting for.
And they're bringing out the old 'insured' line, as if insurance premiums don't come out of the price everyone else is paying. And, furthermore, I don't really think stores are insured for or would file claims for 'regular' shoplifting; it doesn't make sense to buy insurance for events that are occuring continuously and causing relatively small losses; insure for looting/riots, yes, that's a large loss and low probability (hopefully).
If I lived on a farm then I would feed all the food waste to pigs, then eat the pigs to achieve near zero food waste. Just like my uncle used to do. But I live in a suburb and my neighbors don't appreciate pigs (or compost piles). So anything we can't eat goes in the garbage.
Why are Toronto grocery stores selling some chicken breasts for nearly $27/kg? [1] https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/why-are-toronto-grocery-stores-se...
Ending the war in Ukraine might help. The disruption in direct food production as well as fertilizer production has a big impact on food prices worldwide; even if your locale doesn't source directly from Ukraine.
Otherwise, there's the usual options: choose less expensive altnernatives, where available. Grow your own, if economical. Forage, if possible.
Tyson is definitely aware that for chicken, these are non-options.
You're assuming there will be a next election in Russia... Putin and his pals are bent on turning what's left of Russia into North Korea, they don't believe in democracy.
The war will end when Putin is violently overthrown by a competing faction inside the Russian government. After all, most of these Russian politicians are just gangsters, not ideologues, and the war in Ukraine is bad for business.
Timeline? It has been bad for business since the beginning, and he's still here...so, maybe not?
Wasn't Europe drunk with Russian gas until the war in Ukraine started? You know the timeline.
He may be their only shot at keeping what they have?
Just guessing...
Better for whom? All I care is about Russia getting the hell out of Ukraine.
I am sure Democracy will take over and Putin will be ousted by the voters...
j/k if not obvious...
I know, I keep hoping Putin changes his mind soon too.
Even in rich countries, it was not long ago (like, in living memory) that meat was a specialty only afforded occasionally.
One of the things about principaled stances is they are a lot more powerful when adhereing to the principal is inconvenient.
My guess is there are always people stealing. They will use whatever post-hoc justification. If it wasnt the prices it would be corporations, or big-agri, or some provincial law.
But it's also true that prices jumped, but margins were unchanged, so they were making more money for the same work. In an efficient market, you'd expect margins to drop. (Unless it can all be explained by inflation of course and that extra money gets you as far as it used to).
It doesn't seem to be the case. I am just gonna look at Loblaw/Choice, but I imagine the other would not be too different. Loblaw had a revenue of 55.25B and a net income of 2.12B [1], bringing the profit margin to 3.84% over the previous 12 months. Choice's revenue was 1.34B [2] over the same period. Even if the entire revenue was pure profit for Loblaw, it would bring Loblaw's profit margin to (2.12 + 1.34) / 55.25 = 6.3%. This seems higher, but still not remotely high enough to explain the price increases.
But more importantly, Choice REIT's revenue has been fairly consistent over the past couple of years. There is no sudden increase in the past year or so to coincide with the price increases. So the extra price is NOT getting passed from Loblaw to Choice. Choice gets the same amount it was getting in 2019 more or less. Choice's total revenue has been 1.29B (2019), 1.27B (2020), 1.29B (2021), and 1.28B (past 12 months) [3].
Disclaimer: I am not well-versed in the field of finance, so I may have misunderstood the statistics. Please double-check them from the links below if you so prefer. I do not understand why the revenue in the statistics page is 1.34B, but total revenue in the financials page is 1.28B. But the difference is small enough not to change the conclusions either way.
[1] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/L.TO/key-statistics?p=L.T...
[2] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/key-statistics?...
[3] https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/quote/CHP-UN.TO/financials?p=CH...
* https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/xqigdu/profit_marg...
I don't understand why Canadian and US prices are so sticky. In Europe, a frozen pepperoni pizza might cost you 3,78 EUR and the vegetarian will cost you 12 centimes less because the retailer passes on their differing costs.
Meanwhile in Canada/USA, I'll take the 3-meat because it's the same price.
>Meanwhile in Canada/USA, I'll take the 3-meat because it's the same price.
Be careful, even though they're the same "price", the net weights are different so they're not actually the same price.
I especially like it when they have a limit of 10 on some special, so I pick up 10 from my online order, and grab 10 from the store.
Substitutions could use some more logic. Soda often goes out of stock. I don't need 40 bottles, but I'd like a mix of 10 of whichever 4 I like are in stock. That's a lot to ask of their ordering system, so I get 10-40 bottles...
...or just use self-checkout and ignore the limit.
Of course, if you self-check out and pay cash, they're less likely to spot you with the reduced supervision of self-checkout.
The answer isn’t theft. It is to join a co-operative and get a share of the profits back.
Some ethnic communities do in fact have an array of services that are provided inside the community, like loans and food banks and so they can negotiate directly with producers in bulk. That's how these communities thrives where ever they live. In some communities, someone who wants to buy a house or a business isn't going to ask for a loan at a regular bank.
Co-operatives do work but often legislators are making it extremely hard for people to organize, because of the regulatory capture that favor their wealthy allies.
Stores throw away so much still edible stuff that I find it hard to believe that shoplifting makes much of a difference.
There seems to be not enough pressure to keep prices low, which doesn't bode well.
On an unrelated note: I wonder how is this going to affect obesity levels?
1. Which corporation reported record profits exactly? If that is not a grocery store chain, then it is hurting wrong business.
2. If there were any unjustified increases within the country, how did anti-trust regulator react? If price increase results in bigger profits, i.e. unjustified by increasing costs in the supply chain, it is anti-trust case and government must react. Why not demanding this action?
3. If price increase was due to increasing costs, then it is fair and there is no moral ground in stealing anyway. Instead the government should intervene and subsidize some markets to protect population from inflation shock. Why not demanding this action?
My point is, there exist lawful mechanisms to mitigate the negative economic effects of the current situation in the world. They must be activated by a responsible government. Theft is never a solution to anything.
In Canada, our anti-trust regulator is completely feckless and captured by industry.
We don’t have Bernie Sanders or AOC equivalents.
For non-Canadians, this is by design, our government carved out NAFTA-exempt industries (Grocers, Dairy, Telecom, and Banking) during NAFTA negotiations, subsequently creating protected industries from which we now have oligopolies.
TransCanada is doing that against the US Gov for cancelling a pipeline project. The company will probably lose, but so much $ is at stake, so it makes sense to try.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...
Grocery itself has more competition than the rest (thank you Walmart), which is why you gotta be careful when making US shopping trips. I've found rice, oils, canned beans/tomatoes, carrots, bananas, potatoes, onions all cheaper in Canada.
And every year, I get more and more non-perishable grocery stuff from Amazon.ca
Fun fact: Canadians can import non-prescription meds by mail, officially up to 90d supply (so I address it to "Family Scoundreller"), so I cruise ebay for a lot of that stuff.
I am jealous of Americans and their 10,000IU Vitamin D pills. Canada limits the same to 1,000IU per pill. Would this be allowed to cross the border or no?
Looking up the prescription regulations, only >2500 IU requires a prescription, so if you can find 2500s to import, that's over-the-counter and can be lawfully imported for 90d personal use. https://www.napra.ca/national-drug-schedules/?_nds_drug_name...
If you try to have 10000s mailed from USA by USPS, there's a very rare chance that it could be reviewed by Health Canada and they would deem it prescription-only and seize it, or they could "use their discretion" and still let it through anyway because seizing is a lot more paperwork.
Don't bother with UPS or Fedex shipping into Canada. Ever.
Note: if you're in Canada on a work/study permit, there are some exemptions allowing you to import non-narcotic prescription medications.
Are you referring to brokerage fees? UPS does not charge brokerage fees if air shipping is used; basically, anything other than Standard qualifies.
This link also only looks at gross margin - if revenues and gross profit increase, their fixed operating costs (rent for example is usually fixed for 10-20 years for grocers, or the site is owned by the grocer) are now spread over higher sales so their operating profit (EBIT or EBITDA) can increased dramatically.
Sure, but why would anyone call such a situation profiteering?
Furthermore it seems unlikely that the amount of food canadians have eaten has changed significantly over the last few years. Its not like the population increased significantly.
https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/monopoly-7-canadas-compet...
Thanks for sharing!
Here is some reading on this topic:
https://www.thestar.com/business/2022/07/09/supermarkets-are...
https://www.thestar.com/business/2022/10/24/canadas-competit...
Suggesting that people who can't afford to eat should liaise with their elected official, who should present it to the legislature, empower the Competition Bureau to properly investigate the issue, then wait for the Competition Bureau to audit these companies and win a case through the judicial system (and that's the ideal case) – well, I think that's going to happen too slow to prevent starvation.
I'm personally worried about this because rising food prices predict riots and rebellions through history. Either prices have to come down, wages have to go up, or we're gonna see a greater loss of social cohesion and we'll have a much bigger problem on our hands. Getting the government to act on this on a macro scale is going to be a huge task given who's in power right now.
* https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/xqigdu/profit_marg...
As for "greedflation", see econ professor Trevor Tombe: "Are rising profits fueling inflation?"
> Rising grocery prices—the focus of Mr. Singh’s attention—also does not reflect rising profit margins. In fact, food stores and food manufacturing [both have lower profit margins this year than last][0].
> One can even see this in the financial statements of large food retailers. Loblaws, for example, [reported a net profit margin][1] of 3.04 percent in the second quarter of this year and 3.03 percent in the second quarter of last year. Their rising profits are due entirely to rising sales, not increasingly uncompetitive behaviour as some suggest. > > The entire increase in average markups in Canada are therefore related to rising global energy and commodity prices.
[…]
> There are of course important issues to explore and debate when it comes to the level of competition in certain areas of corporate Canada, and there are also many overlapping causes of rising consumer prices. But when it comes to claims that “greedflation” is a key driver of recently rising inflation rates, the data is very clear: it’s not.
* https://thehub.ca/2022-10-14/trevor-tombe-are-rising-profits...
* https://twitter.com/trevortombe/status/1580935693672775681
[0] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/cv!recreate.action?p...
Why are ethics questions always like: "is it ethical to steal bread to feed your starving family?"
And not: "is it ethical to sell bread when families are starving?"
Is it the bread sellers problem that families are starving, though?
Vilifying the making of profit of scarce goods like bread during a famine is exactly the wrong idea, and only makes the problem worse. We _want_ people to be able to make a profit by helping others. If as a society we shame people for selling bread when there are hungry people, ironically there will be less bread sellers and prices will go up.
The way to alleviate food insecurity is to promote more competition among food producers/retailers, and to allow price signals to work their magic. Of course, combined with a reasonable redistribution scheme to provide a baseline level of income to people.
- Income and savings are not evenly distributed, your rich birdfeeder would barely notice the price bump while the poor starver would have even less to eat. Rationing would be a closer solution, but that needs to be planned carefully to avoid similar loopholes (for example: if you can afford meat then you'll need less wheat, leaving more available for waste).
- Crisis-induced profit incentives aren't going to lead to increased production, because 1) setting up production lines takes time and long-term investments, and 2) solving the crisis brings the price back down to normal, anyone who wouldn't invest at the normal prices would be stuck holding the bag in the end. We saw this in action a year ago, during the COVID chip shortage.
That's £700 a month?
That seems high, especially as there's presumably someone spending £1400pm to balance out the family that's stealing everything.
I thought food in North America was cheap, at least compared to Europe.
My weekly shop is dominated by alcohol, and I'm a meat eater and I struggle to spend that much.
Edit: someone mentioned much saner prices as non meat eaters. I eat meat, but much less than most.
Its about on track with the US. In 2021, the US average expenditure for a family of four was 11,908 [1]. Converting USD into CAD yields... 15,938.56. And to add to the anecdote, I spent about 4,000 on food in 2022 just for myself, so that tracks personally at least.
This is all food, including dining. Dining prices are dominated by labor costs. But even raw food is currently challenging, with the war in Ukraine cutting off wheat growing and fertilizer production, and bird flu cutting supply of chicken and eggs.
[1] https://www.bls.gov/cex/tables/calendar-year/mean-item-share...
Privatized, for-profit food will result in hungry people. This is not at all new. There will also be stories about welfare moms stealing candy bars to distract from the real issue because once people are angry about anything they stop being reasonable, take sides, and dig their heels in.
Privatized, for-profit food will also result in price gouging for the less affluent. This is also not new. The current price bumps are being felt by the middle class, though, and that's a potential danger to the price-raisers. People often see it as ethical to beat up the bully (thus our entirely punitive prison system); parallel to that, they see it as ethical to steal from the thief.
We definitely don't want "rent controls" on food prices, I'd like to avoid mass famine.
Under capitalism, why would anybody want to open a grocery store wherever people steal massively?