The Billionaire and Rising GOP Mega-Donor Gaming the Tax System (2022)
propublica.org
propublica.org
If you look at the graph near the bottom, he's offsetting short-term gains with loss. But it's a loss, he's losing money. And looking at the two, many years have bigger losses than gains.
They even state in the article "Of course, if you consider the trade as a whole, it makes no money."
> One strategy, in simplified form, works like this: Make two bets that should move in opposite directions. Think of, say, both betting on and against Coca-Cola’s stock. Towards the end of the year, one bet will be up, and one will be down. At 365 days, the last day a trade is considered short-term, sell the one that’s down. A day later, sell the one that’s up.
> Of course, if you consider the trade as a whole, it makes no money. But that isn’t the point. You’ve found a risk-free way to generate two valuable commodities: short-term losses and long-term gains.
They're picking which gain/loss to realize - in both directions, on the same stock - in a way that means they always win.
A loss is not valuable.
Edit: see my follow-up comment before you make another post re-explaining the scheme. The point is it's bad explanation because the merits have nothing to with "losses" being generally "valuable commodities".
This is like those Saturday morning commercials that say Cocoa-puffs is part of a balanced breakfast, and tyring to explain that by asserting how each component, including the Cocoa-puffs, is balanced. That's not how it works, the aggregate property is not piecewise reducible.
The scheme works as a whole, but the dynamics of it have nothing to do with losses being valuable commodities. It's just an over-clever writer trying to jazz up the explanation without realizing they're saying nonsense in the process and introducing a bad model.
Suppose during 2023, you make $1B from short-term trading. If that's all that happened, you'd be taxed for short-term capital gains on it. But also, this happens:
July 1, 2022: Place a large bet "A" on S&P 500, and a separate large bet "B" against the S&P 500.
July 1, 2023 (365 days later): Suppose S&P500 is up. Sell your bet B. You lose $1B in short-term gains.
July 2, 2023 (366 days later): Sell your bet A. You make essentially the same amount that you lost yesterday, $1B, but in long-term gains.
Total for 2023: $0B net short-term gains, $1B net long-term gains, taxed at a low rate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._FEC#Dissent
No surprise here, a billionaire donates to the GOP and is a tax scammer, who would have thought. If anyone is keeping up with current US politics, the new Congress has voted to defund the IRS, why ? It is very expensive for the IRS to audit the very rich, by defunding it, the IRS will be unable to prevent tax the fraud by rich and large corporations.
Over the past 20 years, the funding for the IRS has been cut in almost every budget by the GOP majority.
Everyone has been all “Russia Russia” with people like this but the CCP has far more money and is much more sophisticated.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/no-irs-no-income-tax-h...
That's a mischaracterization. That's a messaging bill that's been was first introduced and must have failed in 1999, and I presume many other times since.
So in other words, they're considering doing no such thing. It's DOA and everyone knows it. If it wasn't DOA, it wouldn't be on the table.
They're all dishonest, but obviously not to the same degree.
Just become something benefits the democrats doesn't mean it can't collect revenue for the state. So, my point still stands.
You need to increase taxes broadly on the vast middle and lower classes to truly make a difference. It’s usually done in backhanded ways at this scale, like increasing the retirement age or the payroll tax. Direct income taxes are extremely unpopular for the people they impact, so broadly doing this is a non starter, it only works as a class warfare move (“no one under 400k income is impacted!”).
So the republicans are posturing that they will decrease funding but it won’t happen. If the IRS starts mass auditing it will be the lower and middle classes. The EITC is rife with fraud as is small business and eBay / Etsy hustlers. You audit someone and garnish their wages and they will be a lifelong hater of the IRS and all associated with them. It’s a long game.
Now, I'm a simple IRS person, but I want to maximize taxes garnered for time spent. This is such a stupidly easy equation.
Pretending that taxing the rich for all they've got is less effective than taxing the upper/middle class, is just absolute BS, and is easily proved false.
In Europe, the middle class pays far more in tax. The left in America advocate for a European-style welfare state but pretend the middle class doesn’t have to pay a nickel in extra tax for it because they can get it all from the rich. The math doesn’t add up.
Also, I'm explicitly suggesting the top 10% of folks as a target for taxation.
But also, this was like, a lot easier to verify you're wrong about this (quick Google Search reveals): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax#Current_examples
That reads as 9 countries that are doing it. So I'm going to need a lot more citations from you to believe anything you post from here on out.
Although, reading the article, it appears Yass actually does it in real life.
If one finds fault with how some operate the system, it may be time to consider reform.
These people (e.g., Trump) don't write the laws. We know who do. Let's focus on the root problem, not yet another symptom.
Or are the people elected to office who then are swayed by the influence of money and power to shift the laws in favour of the rich and powerful?
Is asking for corruption the root of the problem, or is the root of the problem the people in power who use corruption to enrich themselves?
You’ve said that multiple times, as if you can just will it to be true through repetition. Of course, the statement is categorically false.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/10/us/politics/crypto-indust...
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/us/alec-a-tax-exempt-grou...
https://archive.nytimes.com/dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/...
Please feel free to correct me if wrong.
PACs and SuperPACs exist because the rich willed them into existence.
These "OMG Mr X..." and "OMG Ms Y..." and "OMG Company Z" - and the accused nearly always GOP'ers (which certainly doesn't reflect reality, odd huh) - is a waste of time.
How do I know it's a waste of time? Because we get one or so per month and...nothing is discussed. Nothing changes. In fact, the drone of stating the obvious just switches people off. How convenient.
The truth is, these distractions are another spin job manufacturered by The Politics Industrial Complex. So perhaps we start the discussion there then as that the foundation on which all other nonsense is build?
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/im-your-biggest-fan/
Finally, Trump said it best, via Chappelle on SNL. It's at the end of the monologue if you haven't seen it already.
They donate money to the people who do take the oath to serve and make the laws. If you hire a hitman, you’re still guilty of murder. If you pay to get bad politicians elected, you’re still responsible for the outcome.
Maybe in 2025 a GOP trifecta that had help winning from Yass (and many, many others) will zero out all capital gains taxes or something, but that’s not corrupt, it’s just the long term policy see-saw tilting a different way.
I would agree with the greater point that might be getting made here is that it's all of Washington, DC gaming the laws and using their democratically elected "for the people" powers for personal inurement.
I will never judge private citizens for using any law to their advantage. After all, a private citizen is just leveraging what everyone else can.
Unfortunately, we know who writes the laws but the voters in states rarely replace their senators and representatives. I wish this was less of a "team sport" where my guy who is "conservative" or "liberal" has to win and people would be willing to fire a senator or a representative for just one term so our elected officials are reminded who they work for and that we may vote them out at any time. We don't have term limits for these seats but through voting we effectively /could/ replace them every cycle if we wanted.
I have a friend who owns businesses. His business is part of a larger non-profit association and this association lobbies capital hill every year. He personally goes up there and has conversations with them once a year for our state. He like to share a story where he was waiting to meet with a member of the house. The representative came out of his office, his assistant was helping him put on his jacket and he asked his assistant "What is this vote for?" .. He gets his answer and then he asks -- "How are we voting?" ... presumably asking how his party is voting or how his majority whip wants him to vote.
I like this verbiage from a specific website (pragmaticvoters.com):
A pragmatic voter understands that a politician who is afraid of losing their position is a politician that is willing to govern for the better interest of the people. Politicians should always fear losing their jobs. Through voting, we remind them who they work for.I think you should consider that this is something that can be manipulated to achieve the end goals of people like Yass. Current political strategy is to appeal to the extremes rather than the centers. Culture wars and the like are used to exploit people’s biases in social issues and help wedge apart the center.
It can work the other way around too. Voters can be influenced by fear of electing the wrong person. The predictable outcome of electing someone who promises to "disrupt the establishment" is a lesson that a society needs to re-learn once in a while.
Pedantry about "most" and "written" aside, there's a massive (> billion dollar / year) effort to further the reactionary project. So let's instead write "too many" and "strong-armed".
As for "bOTh siDes THe SamE", if working to end democracy is legitimate, then why are the reactionaries working in secret?
What's with the conspiratorial cynicism of the American political system on this board?
@Dang - most of the commentators are also new to HN. I feel like I've brought up this issue before.
edit: removing unconstructive snark from post
> Many American special interest groups draft model acts which they lobby lawmakers to pass. In particular, the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) has successfully gotten hundreds of model acts passed since 2010.
Also, I never said it didn't exist - I said it's more common at the state level than the federal level
(I'm not a front-end dev, incidentally. That's my absolute least favorite part of the web.)
For example, a lot of the current anti-trust bills coming in the House and separately being spearheaded by Lina Khan in the FTC are directly out of the work the New America Foundation did (I 100% support their cause btw - this statement isn't trying to tar and smear them).
There is stuff to complain about how lobbying is managed in the US, but the take in this entire thread is off and arguing something entirely tangential.
Most commentators here on HN honestly suck at anything social sciences related and it 100% is Reddit level discourse - which is not something a board should aspire to be.