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Comment by sneak | Hacker News Reader

Seems to me that the cars behind the Tesla are the omas at fault?

No, you cannot swoop into a lane and stand on the brakes. Nobody was following the Tesla until he put himself directly in front of an overtaking car with not enough room.

Yes, the Tesla was possibly at fault for the first collision. It was not at fault for the 7 subsequent collisions.

I’ll bet that’s not an argument his insurance company will try to make.

The Tesla had its turn signal on for a solid 5 seconds before impact. I blame the asshole that was in the far left lane going way too fast and not slowing down (just letting off the accelerator when the Tesla signalled would have prevented the accident) when someone is trying to enter. Then they brake way too late. Everyone behind that first vehicle is also to blame for following too closely at too fast of a speed and braking too late.

Friend of mine was driving down the road one day, and someone in the lane next to him turned on her turn signal, then merged into him without looking. She explained the situation carefully to the adjuster, noting that "she had her turn signal on, therefore she had the right to merge." At this point, the adjuster contacted my friend and asked where to send the check.

A turn signal does not give you the right to the lane. You have to look, there has to be enough room.

There were multiple car lengths of room when the Tesla started merging. The other car was so far back it wasn't close to the blindspot. Americans do not adjust their speed or following distance to the conditions. They drive like they have some sort of right to a road free of obstructions and to drive at the speed limit or above, no matter the circumstances.

Takes about 8 to 10 car lengths for an average car to stop from 60 mph, from the moment the brakes are activated fully. A fast human reaction time would be 150ms, but that's just to react, not to get the foot onto the brake. So add another 3 car lengths.

There were not 11-13 car lengths between the car in the left lane and the Tesla when it brake checked them.

Generalizing about Americans is tiresome, by the way. It makes you look petty and ignorant. Which might be true, but on the off chance you didn't intend to come across that way...

Note that the Tesla changed lanes, into the passing lane no less, and then immediately slowed down significantly.

So the first car to hit it may have had a very safe distance between it in the next car, but the Tesla cut that significantly with its sudden maneuver.

It's a popular opinion but I think it's wrong. If they weren't all so close together some of that could habe been avoided. The Tesla indicated for a very long time telling other what it's gonna do.

The Tesla cut into the lane with 3 car-lengths or less behind it and rapidly decelerated. The two cars behind are going to collide because the first one, who was safely positioned before the Tesla changed lanes, didn't have time to react and the second car was probably not able to either, because the brake lights in front didn't come on until too late. Then, there was a couple cars that were probably tailgating, and finally the whole thing is a snafu.

I can't tell if the people making these comments about the drivers behind the Tesla being responsible are such defensive drivers that they never leave less than 6 seconds in front of them, or they're tailgaters themselves, or just being mendacious.

It’s also just not realistic. If everyone was that defensive (5+ seconds distance) on such a busy road it would severely lower its capacity, leading to constant traffic jams. Leaving that gap will just mean others taking it.

Saying "driving safely lowers the capacity of roads" is like saying that not jamming pennies in a fuse box lowers the capacity of the wiring.

Is it like that because it's true?

I mean, it's true until your house burns down. Then your wires stop carrying any current.

In my opinion the optimal following distance for traffic flow is probably slightly higher than what people are doing.

There might be a "laffer curve" where increasing the follow distance of other cars and limiting overcorrections would increase capacity, rather than decrease it, at the current level.

If we're getting regular "phantom jams", we're probably following too closely.

there definitely is such a curve. I just can't imagine its optimum is at 5+ seconds between cars, at least at the highway speeds we drive in dense/often congested areas (~60mph / 100kph where I live). Intuitively I'd put it around 3 seconds.

I agree there. There's a lot an individual can do to dampen the compression waves if they leave 3 seconds instead of 2. I was being facetious with 5 seconds, but in some situations the 3 second distance is still not enough time to react. For example, when there is a stationary obstruction and the car in front obscuring it swerves instead of braking.

Additionally, there's a lot to be said about vehicles not acting like they have human drivers. This Tesla basically acted like a psychopath.

I have one car with regular cruise control and one with adaptive cruise. I am more relaxed with the standard one because I get the signals I need visually to know if I need to pass the car in front or not. I can't tell if my other car is going to drop from 80mph to 60mph all of a sudden until it's basically happened. Better autopilot could help, but then would I end up in this situation?

> . The Tesla indicated for a very long time

3 seconds is a very long time? Also: 3 seconds of turn signal is a clear indication of "i am going to change lanes and fully come to a stop"? And then turning off all signals and coming to a full stop without hazards on is a clear indication of "i am stopping"?

Indicating to change lanes and changing lanes should have been enough for the traffic behind to slow down and create a safe distance between each other. People just drove too close to each other.

I wouldn't expect any normal car to behave like this, but the drivers following should have recognized it was a Tesla

Maybe it could help a large "F" sign, similar to the "L" one for learners in the UK (or the "P" one)? [0]

[0] https://www.gov.uk/driving-lessons-learning-to-drive/using-l...

They are of course at fault for not leaving a safe distance.

But ultimately the behaviour of the Tesla FSD system is what caused the chain of accidents.

> They are of course at fault for not leaving a safe distance.

They weren't following the Tesla. And a reasonable safe distance does not usually account for the guy in front of you doing an assisted stop. That is far enough outside reasonable expectations.

> And a reasonable safe distance does not usually account for the guy in front of you doing an assisted stop.

A distance where a sudden stop results in a collision is not a reasonable safe distance.

As others have pointed out in yesterday's submission. This could have been avoided if the cars behind them were leaving a more defensive distance to the other cars. In all directions, you can't just look ahead, you gotta observe what's going on around you.

Exactly this. Asking American drivers to do that is just too much apparently.

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