It is amazing that gas stoves as something to think about have entered into the public space so rapidily from nowhere.
It's so deeply deeply bizarre. Am I the only one wondering not about the topic but about how these topics occur?
It's so deeply deeply bizarre. Am I the only one wondering not about the topic but about how these topics occur?
The link to "climate" is so obviously strained. We're talking about a minor energy user, and we're not seriously addressing the source of the electricity. We should be talking about electricity generation first. And if we're going to be talking about homes, we should be talking about HVAC, starting with insulation.
I know there's the "we can do both!" argument, and the "this will get us ready for when the grid finally switches to renewables" argument (like electric cars). So maybe this makes sense for new construction?
But in a world with little nuclear and precious few renewables, it just seems premature, and like a lot of noise directed at the wrong things. Our impulse when we want to "save the environment" should not be to run out, buy a bunch of new shit, and send perfectly good appliances to the landfill.
The problem with "do both" arguments is that it doesn't consider the costs and inconvenience of all those little changes on public support. That's particularly true banning gas stoves, because how people cook is deeply intertwined with culture and tradition. My Bangladeshi immigrant relatives think banning gas stoves is preposterous. You're telling them they need to get a high-end induction range to be able to brown meat as well as the cheap propane stoves they learned to cook on back home. (And somehow get their landlord to install a 240v line in the kitchen of their crappy Queens apartment.) They need to unlearn how their mom taught them to cook, and learn new techniques that don't involve lifting the pan off the induction range, new ways of using pressure cookers, etc. You're telling Mexicans they can't directly heat tortillas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fybeV8uWCQI) or char peppers on the flame. You're telling Asians they can't use woks the way they're used to.
If you're going to step into a hornet's nest like that, the pay off had better be huge! Otherwise you're just setting the environmental movement's political capital on fire for little payoff.
The quote from the CPSC commisioner was "Products that can’t be made safe can be banned." which is making people go haywire. Natural gas stoves can be made safe, and that is by mandating ventilation (possibly automatic ventilation on ignition), and emissions standards.
You forgot the green energy lobby.
> The Consumer Product Safety Commission, which has a staff of roughly 500, plans to open public comment on hazards posed by gas stoves later this winter. Besides barring the manufacture or import of gas stoves, options include setting standards on emissions from the appliances, Trumka said
After August 1, you'll only be able to get ones that meet an efficiency standard, with a variety of exceptions as well.
Most people aren't talking about banning existing gas stoves in existing homes. But every easily avoidable greenhouse gas emission should be targeted, right now. And the entirety of the infrastructure to bring natural gas to so many homes involves lots of emissions, especially when considering leaks.
I really don't care about the "let's wait until x" arguments. All of these things need to be addressed now. Way too many people don't seem to understand the urgency here.
We are careening down the highway towards a brick wall, and people are saying "I don't want to take my foot off the gas pedal, because I want to keep making stir fry in my wok." Come on.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-is-coming-for-your-gas-st...
Yes, there is; there wasn't a policy statement. One commissioner (out of five) made an off-the-cuff, vauge mention about regulation (which could easily encompass something like a ventilation or emissions standard for them) in an interview. The usual suspects are now trying to turn it into the next culture war battle.
The Inflation Reduction Act, passed last year in the US, has rebates to pay for 50% or 100% of the cost to convert a gas stove to an electric one
That means that there are people who stand to make a lot of money by convincing you to go electric at no cost to you :)
About a year later the trickle of bad news about gas stoves began. And it’s somehow all about the health risks of having a gas stove.
I’m not a conspiracy guy but it seems to me like climate activists are driving this message and they know full well you will never convince people to stop cooking over a flame, without resorting to “protect the children” nonsense.
Nah. Here's an article from 1996. (The "now, ladies" dates it pretty well to sometime outside the last decade, heh.)
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-04-02-ls-54048-...
"And now, ladies, one more reason to get out of the kitchen: Cooking may be hazardous to your health. Or so suggests controversial new research into the relationship between the use of gas stoves and respiratory problems in women. The major pollutant released by the combustion of gas is nitrogen dioxide, an odorless, reddish-brown compound that irritates the linings of the respiratory tract and causes shortness of breath."
Something known for decades is now getting new attention, scrutiny and oversight. What changed? Is it just a coincidence it’s become a target for the climate industry at the same time?
Ultimately, I think it’s a hard sell that we as a race should no longer cook over an open flame. But of course, the other target from the climate industry is meat itself so I guess the idea is that when it’s all plant paste who cares how it gets cooked?
They might do exactly that.
The exact quote from the interview (https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-01-09/us-safety-...):
"'This is a hidden hazard,' Richard Trumka Jr., an agency commissioner, said in an interview. 'Any option is on the table. Products that can’t be made safe can be banned.'"
The mitigations you propose would seem to fall within the "made safe" category.
Also in the LA Times piece, emphasis mine:
"The Consumer Product Safety Commission, which has a staff of roughly 500, plans to open public comment on hazards posed by gas stoves later this winter. Besides barring the manufacture or import of gas stoves, options include setting standards on emissions from the appliances, Trumka said."
So far I have yet to read a comment addressing the actual analysis of the studies by the author of the article. It's all: "Everyone knows gas is bad; it's axiomatic and self-evident, and anyone who goes to the trouble of actually looking at the source data and run analysis on it is a moron."
Why is it a surprise that we switched to gas?