Ask HN: Tips for learning a foreign language
As learning a new foreign language is a mental task which can be improved by practice does anybody have any tips from previous experience?
(Especially once you gain some fluency) Allow yourself to "draw a blank" when using/speaking the language, rather than immediately thinking of the corresponding term in your native language. This will help you to really be in the language. It can also, in a way, result in a more natural conversation with a native speaker, if and as that person can guess what your talking about and respond by "filling in the blanks". (And, it's just more fun to pause and then say, in idiomatic form used in the language: "that... stuff/thing/dohickey/whatchyamacallit..." . ;-)
Basically: 1) Spend first 1-3 months just listening, pure input. Don't even try to talk. You'll just stress out. Listening will help you pick up the nuances of the language as well as the flow. You'll also learn idioms, and normal responses to questions. You can even pick an accent you like and use it afterwards.
2) Following #1, get yourself a bunch of audio CDs, movies, music of the foreign language, and just listen to it whenever you're free. And it doesn't matter if you don't comprehend it (although this shouldn't be the bulk of your listening). Again, get a sense of the flow of words. The rhythm.. the silence, etc. It's like listening to a song over and over, and being able to hum the tune afterwards.
Even when you're in the bathroom taking a dump. Even when you're sleeping if you want to. Just try and make sure you're listening to that language as much as possible.
3) Don't kick yourself for learning it so slow. And forget about the notion that adults learn slower than kids... remember, babies have 4-5 years of listening experience before they're ever expected to say something half-way sophisticated. 4-5 years! That's a lot! Babies suck at learning languages!!
My theory is adults learn languages so slowly because they actually never try to learn. Two reasons for this. a) Adults typically do not know how to learn period. b) Adults have been conditioned to do the wrong things in attempting to learn and all books and courses are built around these wrong ideas.
Most important way to evaluate your learning is to ask yourself "Do I feel like a stupid idiot as I do this?" If the answer is YES, then you are learning. Keep it up and get to love your stupid idiot self. In time the clouds will clear and you will not be stupid anymore. Lots of people have warped adult egos which simply cannot accept these feelings of stupidity. Some people actually kill themselves because of this, others drop the studying entirely, and others soldier through and learn nothing because they have not accepted the feelings of stupidity and moved forward in spite of it.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1603562
There are several good answers here.
First read the text (a few sentences) in the foreign language. Then run it through the translator, because you can only understand half of it and there are some key words that have you lost. Read the English translation keeping in mind that it is WRONG. However it will have clues about the structure of sentences, the meaning of unfamiliar words, etc. In this step you are not learning the foreign language, you are learning some POSSIBLE solutions to the problem of understanding the text.
Now go back and read the foreign language text from the top. You will find that miraculously your brain can now read and understand it almost 100%. Occasionally you will be forced to check the dictionary for a word that suffers from the problem discovered in 1966 when researchers ran "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" through and English-Russian translator and then back again through a Russian English translator. They got back "The vodka is good but the meat is rotten".
I also used this back and forth translation to check my Russian letters before I sent them. I wrote in Russian without a dictionary, then translated it back into English with an online translator. I often found words where I had chosen the wrong one of several possibilities.
Nowadays when people ask me "What is the X language word for Y?" I say, it cannot be translated. In general it is not possible to translate an English word into another language or vice versa. That is why I recommend keeping phrase lists rather than word lists because you get a bit of context which is what determines meanings.
When you use a dictionary and there are 10 possible translations for "find", look up each of the possibilities in the foreign language section and you will not only find the best word to express what you mean, you will also learn how fuzzy a lot of our English words are, and don't ask me about "get" and "put".
Based on my own experience, I would recommend a few things:
1) Get a conversation partner, ideally someone local you can meet with at least once per week for an hour or so.
2) Immerse yourself in the culture as much as you can. Watch movies in the target language (TL); when you feel ready keep a journal in the TL, even with simple sentences; go to restaurants that serve cuisine from the places where the TL is spoken.
3) Keep a notebook (electronic or paper) in which you write down unfamiliar/new words as you come across them. Look them up and learn their meanings when you are able.
4) In terms of pronunciation, figure out which sounds are similar and different between your native language and the TL. Practice your 'speaking' muscles to try to produce the phonemes of the TL.
5) Don't worry about making mistakes.
The main thing is to constantly push yourself to express yourself in the new language.
. I learned by living in the other countries. Semi-immersion in your home country is possible (movies, books, tutor, conversation exchange) but harder.
. What's your goal? Business, pleasure? Focus on finding the vocab you need to know and figuring out what level you'll need to reach.
. Fluency in itself isn't a true state - ability to communicate clearly is the best gauge, most of the time this means spoken communication. This can range from simple formalities to industry-specific negotiations.
. Traditional reading and writing exercises are only useful to learn the language framework, i.e. its basic grammar. Try to get these out of the way quickly, and use them more as a reference.
. Modern novel reading is good for vocab and cementing grammar knowledge, as well as being amusing.
. IMO the key to the most important communication channel is learning to speak in a way that is received loud and clear by a native. This means learning the sounds of the language, phonetics, and seeing where they differ to your own sound-bank. A recent blog experiment I read about [http://www.xamuel.com/french-in-30-days-day-30/] made some interesting discoveries - his intensive daily learning only resulted in an understanding of many single words. His actual communication skills weren't functional. I'd say that they could have been, had he focused on the right things. I left my further thoughts on the linked page.
. You can do all you need to for effective learning every day, just by living in the foreign country, with no need for reminders - but this is of course rarely practical.
. A further key point: learn to hear the fixed expressions that are used in common speech. With enough of these you can sail through most situations and even learn to ask for help when stuck on something.
. Do not try to word-for-word translate what you want to say in the target language, find the fixed expression for what you want to say. This takes time, and a fair bit of practice, but what doesn't?
. Flashcards give the false impression of learning to communicate. I would avoid these unless they contained fixed, common expressions. Even if they offer spaced repetition, which seems to work well, they encourage the wrong kind of learning. Yes, adults can take shortcuts to learn faster than children/babies, but they still must learn the 'codes' of communication in the culture and language.
I'm working on a system that incorporates these points in an audio format, but it's yet to be tested and I've no idea if even that could work as intended. So far, no silver bullet.
Why the long song and dance? Because I did it and I know how to do it. It is actually quite simple and is obvious if you think it over a bit. You have to work at it EVERY day, 365 days a year. Spend an hour or more a day. Find ways to extend that time whenever you can, for instance turn on the Spanish audio on a DVD and English subtitles instead of watching TV in English.
Second thing to do is to exercise all of the language senses EVERY DAY! If you sit down with a language book and spend all day Saturday on a couple of lessons learning them by heart then you are doing it wrong, wasting your time and will soon drop the studying entirely.
Every day you must read some of the language. Every day you must write, preferably full sentences or phrases, not just vocabulary words. For instance if you learn that sombrero means hat, then write "El muchacho no sabe donde esta su sombrero" or at least "un sombrero blanco" at the very minimum.
Every day you must listen to the language. In some countries there is easy access to TV or radio signals, but everyone who can read this can download podcasts. Listening to the CD that came with a course does not count. Sure, do listen to the CD, but don't check off listening until you listen to some language in the wild, so to speak.
Every day you must speak the language. In the beginning you can get away with reading a page out loud even if you don't understand the words. But preferably you should be speaking with native speakers. I get a free newspaper handed out every morning outside the transit station by a Chinese guy so I always say "Xie xie) which means thank you. When I took my daughter to a birthday party and entered a room of Chinese girls I said "Ni men hao" which means hello everyone. Yep, I am working on yet another language since I live in China now (the North American part commonly called Vancouver BC).
And you must also spend a reasonable chunk of time everyday talking to imaginary friends entirely in the new language. Don't speak out loud, but hold the conversation in your head as you walk to the subway, or take a lunchtime jog. Often you will not be able to fully express your thoughts because you lack the vocabulary so practice describing what you want to say. For instance, if you don't know the word tree but want to say "See the bird up in that tree" then try saying "See the bird up in that big plant, the really high one beside the park bench. What is that called?" When you get advanced enough, that kind of mental maneuvering will actually help you recall words that you had once learned but half forgotten.
Don't fuss over courses. Go to a good bookstore with a wide selection and browse through the books. Buy one or two whose writer seems to write in a way that you can understand and will not get bored with. When you are more advanced look for specific types of books. A comprehensive dictionary. A grammar book. A vocabulary builder book.
Buy some books written for 8 year olds in the foreign language. Stick to books written by a native speaker of the language where the action of the story is set in a country where this language is spoken. Especially avoid books originally written in English that were translated. When you can get through one of these, buy some books for 10 year olds, then 12, then 14 year olds. After that go to adult books. The age thing is important because young people do not have large vocabularies. Therefore childrens' book editors spend a lot of time editing books so the child will learn the meaning of new words from the context. You will learn them too and save much time that would have been spent with the dictionary.
Up front, let me make this disclosure to perhaps prevent you from freaking out when you hear how long it's taking me: I'm 58 years old, and the task has been much more difficult than I expected. If you are significantly younger, you probably won't take as long as I am taking.
Rather than tell you what I did, I'll describe what I would do now if I had it to do over again. My experience is this: REPETITION is the only thing that works. I cannot emphasize this too much.
1) Before you do anything else, get the pronunciation down right. I used an online course (there are many, and I got this one free through my public library). I also used one disc of a CD-based language course. Keep practicing until you get pretty good at it--use a tape recorder to check your work.
2) Buy one or more books in the McGraw-Hill “Practice Makes Perfect” series, starting with Basic Spanish, followed by Spanish Verb Tenses (both by Dorothy Richmond). Do every exercise in the book, in order, and check your answers against the answers in the back of the book. (You can also go online and hear the correct answers being spoken.) Then use a sheet of paper to hide the (correct) answers and go over the same exercise items again, and again, and again.
3) Whenever you learn a new word or phrase, write it down along with its English translation. Keep these pages and review them.
4) Sometime after you have gotten your pronunciation down correctly, you may want to take a local or online Spanish class. You'll learn more doing it this way because, being familiar with pronunciation and spelling, you can struggle with the language itself. Continue to keep your word list. For each hour of "class," spend at least an hour of outside study of the same material. I've used several online courses, which I rate as follows: livemocha.com (best), mangolanguages.com (good), babbel.com (so-so). Destinos, a story-based video introduction to Spanish, is at http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html.
5) The hardest thing for me is learning to speak new sentences on my own, especially in conversation mode. For this I'm using the Pimsleur audio-only training CDs. Their idea is to teach entirely through conversation, with virtually no formal learning--no grammar, and (obviously) no spelling. Actually, I started with Pimsleur, but blindly repeating strings of phonemes didn't work for me, so I gave it up. I recently returned to it, now that I have pronunciation and moderate amounts of grammar and reading ability--and it's just what I need.
Miscellaneous factoids and advice: The website spanishdict.com is my constant companion during studying. Don't spend big bucks on anything (for example, I got my Pimsleur course, used, from eBay). Don't be seduced by any online or computer course that promises to deliver any level of language proficiency--only practice, away from the computer, can deliver that.
Take an immersion course in a foreign country if you can. There may be a local group of language-learners near you.
Flashcard programs can help; on my iPod touch, I use Flashcards Deluxe, and there are several good open-source programs for your computer. Switch among various different kinds of practice; variety combats boredom. Practice at least an hour daily, six days a week. Try different things, and see what works for you.
Wish me luck--in six more months, I may actually be talking to people.