Hacker News Reader

Comment by makeitdouble | Hacker News Reader

Imagine having a 0 to 100 scale of how much we value the device. Some of us are somewhere around 70 or 80 for the mac laptops, and 50 for iPads.

That’s why you’ll hear very critical takes while people might still be buying the device.

Also I’m of the opinion that buying something shouldn’t mean closing ones eyes about its flaws or being lucid on what you hate about it. The “voting with your wallet” thing is to me just a meme that want the world to look more simple than it is, except if you’re actually donating to lobbies to bribe politicians.

To take another example, I would understand someone buying iPhones while completely hating Apple’s attitude toward developers and consumers in general, the world is just that complicated.

View on HN

Even so, this just goes back to the question of "why does Apple get 30% of each transaction", since artificially preventing people from sideloading Android is one of the main ways they achieve all of their goals: 30% cut of video game IAPs, security in the face of evil maid attacks, and maintaining their brand image (since people might still blame Apple for Android running slow/having short battery life on iPhone hardware). All of this is because iPhone is a product, not a general purpose computer that you can do anything on, and this philosophy is the reason iPhone "just works", while everyone has seen some windows laptop running slow due to McAfee or Norton Antivirus bloatware, or infested with adware and 100 shell extensions. Even Macs are more likely to have malware since you have the choice to install whatever you want, while the furthest iOS malware can go is excessive tracking to third parties (the xcode virus/the Life360 app); you won't find adware that infects every app or uses your phone as a botnet zombie.

Apple has paid out about $20 million dollars in their security bounty program, and a good portion of that must be iOS-related, so much so that they offer dedicated iOS devices to researchers.

iPhones have been jailbroken by visiting a webpage, receiving a message, or joining a WiFi network.

Just about every single iOS release is patching a vuln that was reported or found in the wild being exploited.

So, really, is the "furthest iOS malware" concern being 3rd party tracking a genuine statement?

Given it’s much harder to get malware through the App Store than it is to get it through the macOS notarization system (or just telling people to right click open your dmg), you certainly won’t find iOS malware affecting a large amount of users unless those users seek it out (via jailbreaks) or are individuals at risk of extremely targeted attacks, which is what lockdown mode aims to guard against: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/07/apple-expands-commitm...

You should define “malware”. There is wide variety of apps that harm users to different degrees, and I’m not sure we’re sharing the same definitions of what the App Store is supposed to protect their users from.

In particular, an app that signs you up for a $100/month subscription behind your back that's impossible to cancel via some dark UX patterns, will make it through the notarization system just fine, no jailbreak or exploit needed.

> that's impossible to cancel via some dark UX patterns

The scandalous $10 per week kid’s games definitely exist, but in fairness, you made this part up, as all subscriptions are easily accessible on your clearly labeled ‘Subscriptions’ page, and canceled by clicking the big red ‘Cancel subscription’ button.

To note, the “easily accessible” part is for people with an Apple device with iCloud set as the target account.

You don’t have another Apple device to manage your kid’s subscriptions ? it’s simple ! Download iTunes on Windows! No windows or can’t/don’t want to install iTunes? Tough luck.

You’d think icloud.com has feature parity regarding payment managements and critical settings, and no, it doesn’t [0]

BTW having multiple Apple devices still won’t make it that much easier if you happen to use different Apple IDs (if you need access to more than one country’s store for instance, or separate work and personal profiles): logging in and out is a PITA with the Find My Devices lock and 2FA.

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202039

> To note, the “easily accessible” part is for people with an Apple device with iCloud set as the target account. > You don’t have another Apple device to manage your kid’s subscriptions ? it’s simple ! Download iTunes on Windows! No windows or can’t/don’t want to install iTunes? Tough luck.

Wow I’m speechless.

Not having access to your kids’ device, and not having access to a linked Apple device, and not having access to a Windows device, and not being willing to download iTunes is considered a dark pattern??

Sometimes I really wonder about the little anti-Apple bubble some people live in…

It isn't that hard really.

You're a linux/android parent and your teenage kid wants an iPhone. Will you take their phone every now and then just to check subscriptions etc. ?

Or, each family member has an iPhone with their own account, and no other Apple device. You'll be switching anytime you want to check. etc.

I'm aware of these limitations because I've hit them so many time, while having 5 Apple devices at hand. I get it might be s 80/20 split with it being really simple for 80%. But IMO that's just not good enough, at least not 15 years after the first device launch.

[edit] I'm kinda surprise how the goalpost is shifted from "hey it's easy" to "go install iTunes if you're on windows". I having a website too much to ask really ?

> I'm kinda surprise how the goalpost is shifted from "hey it's easy" to "go install iTunes if you're on windows". I having a website too much to ask really ?

Dunno where you got the idea that I somehow ‘shifted the goalpost’ from “it’s easy…”?

The poster I was answering said that Apple made it “impossible” to cancel subscriptions by using “dark patterns” and this somehow got transformed into some vanishingly tiny, special HN-case of a person running Linux who doesn’t have another Apple device and ‘cannot’ install iTunes with a teenager who’s phone they can never access to check subscriptions…

Oh well - the anti-Apple fanatics here will downvote absolutely anything, I guess - including anyone responding to utter garbage like this.

F-Droid app store has no malware, even though it does not benefit from Apple's approach to security. All you need in practice is free software.

Which besides a few users waiting for the return of OpenMoko, no one else cares about, including malware authors.

Would you say the same about the Linux repositories?

Depends on how we go about regarding the Year of Desktop Linux, alternative repos, snaps and flatpak, and best of all, curl | sh installs.

Let's just limit ourselves to servers with the original repos, for simiplicity.

So be it, many of these vulnerabilities can be used as entry point,

https://vulmon.com/searchpage?q=debian+debian+linux+11&sortb...

I did not find any evidence of malware in the repos from your link. Vulnerabilities also exist for iOS and MacOS.

My original claim was that, in order to avoid malware in repos, all you need is free software.

If you want to avoid all vulnerabilities instead, try Qubes OS.

I think the difference of treatment just brings different attack vectors. Monetary scams for instance, especially through subscriptions are more common on iOS. Apple taking 30% just means less incentives for them to drastically deal with those, as they still get a cut of the money passing by.

On the other hand browsers being much more capable on macos also means way less native apps to download/install, which allows to greatly reduce the attack surface IMHO. You can tell family members to just never execute anything (I don’t use windows, so nothing to say about antiviruses)

As a side not, the “just works” also often translates to “tough luck”. There’s still a number of times where I put down my iPad to take my android phone because it’s just much simpler. Some of these pains would be alleviated if I used Apple services absolutely everywhere in my life, just as Sony products would make sense if your housewold was 100% filled with Sony products in the 90s. But That’s really not a choice I’m willing to make.

Windows.is slowly going away from the "general purpose computer".

Reply on news.ycombinator.com