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Comment by xtalx | Hacker News Reader

Most craft breweries make lagers and pilsners that are considerably better than “big beer.” Local/craft beer doesn’t exclusively produce IPAs, Fruited Sours, and Bourbon Barrel Aged Oatmeal stouts.

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Craft lagers are out numbered 15:1 by ales because of the tank space and cooling required. The esterification reactions of ale yeasts are inherent to ales and the brewing temperature. All Ales smell fruity. This is really basic beer knowledge.

What exactly are we calling ales here, isn't ale just beer said another way (or, rather, the other way around)?

Speaking of lagers, good ones are hard to come by these days. I like all things beer, and I enjoy all the IPAs, fruited sours and all that, BUT I also much, much enjoy quality lagers. As it is, in the US, it's rather hard to find good ones, all the mass market ones are horrible (I guess a Stella will work if that's absolutely the best you can do, but everything else is even lower in terms of quality).

I'm in the ironic position that I actually whole-heartedly enjoy IPAs, but hate the IPA fad because it's (mostly, just due to the sheer size of the IPA market) keeping brewers from making good lagers. Can I have both please?

> isn't ale just beer said another way

No. Ales are a subset of beers.

> I hate the IPA fad because it's keeping brewers from making good lagers. Can I have both please?

Yes, of course. Seeing this so much in this thread makes me feel like it's 2012 again. I travel a lot in North America and like to check out the local breweries when I do. There are always plenty of non-IPA options.

Ale yeast and lager yeast are the two different types of beer yeasts. There are a million lines of both, but ale yeast ferments in about a week at 70f and produces esters which have a fruity odor. Lager yeast operates at roughly 55f and takes a month to ferment. Lagers have little odor which some people like.

To me, lagers are like a steak and ales are like chicken tikka. Both are good, and people preferring one or the other is reasonable. Due to tank and cooling requirements, lagers benefit from large scale production.

Something like Sam Adams is a good lager to compare against an IPA. Just smell the difference and decide which you like.

And more importantly, this is why there are a few craft lagers. It's not because they're too busy making IPAs, it's because lagers specifically aren't easy to do at smaller scale. There are plenty of craft ales that are not IPAs.

That’s fair, you clearly know more about beer than me. I mostly just drink them. I don’t care for most lagers but a good one on a summer day is nice. I was just trying to make the point that you don’t have to choose Budweiser over craft beer to get a lager. It’s clear to me now that you already know that.

I have to disagree here. Fermentation temperatures and yeast strains do, of course, have a huge impact on the final outcome, including, but not limited to, the effect of esters. It is not true, however, that all ales smell fruity. With the large variety of top fermenting "ale" yeasts available, as well as some control to be exercised over the fermentation process, it's perfectly possible to get quite a clean fermentation. Kolsch is fermented with an ale yeast, for example.

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