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Comment by b112 | Hacker News Reader

Their response? "Oh, that's just all standard legal stuff, don't worry about it."

I'm a Canuck, so centuries of legal, common law separation here...

But if someone misrepresents what a contract is, and even more so applies pressure to sign, it's meaningless.

My understanding is that this goes back to "make your mark" and lower levels of literacy, and in modern times, that legalese is gibberish to many, thus misrepresenting what you're signing can effect enforcement/validity.

It's very stupid for them to brush it off like that.

(I wouldn't have signed either, and have walked from jobs and contracts over absurd NDAs. One client actually wanted me to sign a forever NDA, but 1/2 way through the contract! Wtf?! Negotiate that at contract sign, not months later!)

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We do have what we call "fraudulent misrepresentation" in the US. It could give me grounds to seek damages or invalidation of certain misrepresented provisions, but doesn't automatically make the contract meaningless over here. The two problems are specificity and proof, both of which require more consent from the receptionist than they are probably willing to go along with.

It would be fraud to misrepresent a material fact at time of signing, such as the quality of goods or, say, if a loan officer says that interest is fixed-rate, when the contract says it is variable-rate. But for my case, what does "standard legal stuff" actually mean? I'd argue it is actually pretty standard for a Bay Area tech company. What does "don't worry about it" actually mean? If I asked the receptionist to explain more or "does this include a non-disparagement agreement?", I doubt they would have said anything.

For proof, I was in California, which is a two party consent jurisdiction for recording. So I could have pulled out my phone and said "I'd like your permission to record what you just told me about the contract. Can you please state your name, position at Company X, and what you just told me about it being all standard legal stuff?" If I was that receptionist, I'd probably call security.

Shouldn't this invalidate basically every software EULA/TOS?

How often do EULA/TOS type documents actually get tested in court?

I had a prof in university who was pretty sure majority of them wouldn't stand up to an actual legal case.

Many NDAs and non-competes wouldn't either.

The point isn't to lock you down, it's to try to lock you down, and to come off as intimidating or onerous.

In many jurisdictions much of the EULAs are unenforceable for this reason and others; they are effectively a set of false assertions about rights and prohibitions.

Most EULAs are basically meaningless in the USA. Once you have a legally acquired copy of the program the Copyright Act specifically and explicitly gives you the right to back it up and load it for execution. You don't need to be licensed a legal right you already have.

You can also print it off, cross out the shit you don't consent to, initial the changes, sign, and mail it certified to whatever their address of record is. I'm not a lawyer, but at that point my understanding is it's their job to say no we don't agree, just like it was your job to say no I don't agree.

California rental agreements are a particularly odious example. Liquidated damages (AKA late fees) are completely illegal in California. In fact it's illegal to even present a lease that has a LD clause to be signed! Sometimes I wish I were more into small claims swashbuckling, because I bet you could have a dozen small claims for various properties going against Equity Residential in any California city.

I've had the same thought about taking out predatory loans and then filing to have them canceled.

In my jurisdiction predatory loans are unenforceable.

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