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Comment by contravert | Hacker News Reader

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "how easy it is"?

Maybe it was colored by my expectations going in. With no prior experience, I'd assumed that sales was an arcane art. A combination of charisma and manipulation. Working in a sales role, I felt out of my element for months. Until I learned that sales is a building process just like anything else.

Create a system where you maximize the number of people weighted by their need of what you sell. Presented at a timely moment. The client should see you as a domain expert, and someone who makes the process frictionless. Pricing is a surprisingly small part of it. If you can build a good process, you'll sell 10x what the car salesman types will.

Unconventional approaches to sales are the most successful, so a hacker mindset pays off. Once I got over my initial fears, it was quite easy to get the high score :)

I don't want to speak for John, but this is my answer to the same question: "Sales isn't rocket science, it just takes someone who is comfortable talking to people...and when you're selling something you believe in, that's really easy to do."

It depends on the type of sales. Selling two sided markets is much, much harder. Through in required analysis and it takes a lot.

Examples: Real estate Brokerage &

Investment banking

Etc.

I am intrigued by the idea of no commissions in some if not all sales jobs. If the person isn't selling you can fire them. If they do well in the managers judgment you can bonus them. While it is subjective, almost all business decisions are. A good manager is good at making good subjective decisions.

It's a good philosophy to start from, but you can't have a career in sales without eventually being forced to push products that no reasonable person would believe in.

Perhaps I've been soured by the particular salespeople I've worked with, but I don't think it's a job that ethical or sane people thrive in long-term because there are eventually going to be situations where management expects results that can't be achieved without deceptive behaviour. Most of the successful salespeople I've known have been greedy, delusional, unethical, or borderline sociopaths. The really good salespeople are the ones that can hide it until a critical moment.

That is why I mentioned that sales cooperating with engineering would be a better idea instead of incentives.

As a sales professional myself, I find it disheartening that so many view salespeople in the manner described. One of the cardinal rules of being a truly great salesperson is to believe in what you're selling (Zig Ziglar talks about this often). If you don't, customers and prospects will not only be able to smell it from a mile away, but your passion and desire to succeed will be nonexistent and you'll have to fight for every closed deal because you won't have anything convincing to say when the person on the other end decides to call you on your bullshit. Being a truly great salesperson means fundamentally understanding the needs of the customer and working together to discover ways that your product or service can deliver them benefit and a positive ROI. Sales is about asking questions and listening intently, and I believe the truly great people find a way to effectively sit on the same side of the table as the customer while at the same time delivering the objectives that their company requires. Honesty and integrity play a huge role in selling and business relationships, and any company that understands the value of maintaining long-term business relationships will work this into their sales incentive structure.

I used to work for a highly sales-focused software company (6-7 figure licenses, year-long sales cycles) with some very good salesmen. It was an eye-opening experience. The really good salesmen were no more ethical than a used-car salesman, but they were very good at portraying themselves the way you describe and extremely judicious in their use of deception. Perception of honesty and integrity is very important in sales, but I have my doubts that genuinely honest people rise to the top in sales. I had the typical distrust of shady salespeople before working there, but now I'm deeply suspicious of anyone in sales, regardless of how honest they seem.

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