Hacker News Reader

Comment by yepguy | Hacker News Reader

Why do they even have their own fleet of garbage trucks, though? I'm pretty sure the garbage trucks where I live are all privately owned.

View on HN

Because NYC is entirely different than where you live, most likely. City gov subsidizes trash pick up instead of allowing private companies to bid, because any private company would lose money. And if no city subsidized trash pick up, New York will be New Delhi.

I don't understand how NYC couldn't make money for a private trash company. The trash company I use makes money, and our population density isn't anywhere near what it is in NYC. I have to imagine the largest cost is fuel, and it stands to reason that it takes much more fuel to get all of the trash where I live.

I don't understand what you're saying, I guess. I don't understand how a city being large can just automatically lead to a loss for trash companies.

NYC already has private trash pickup and it's a bit of a S#1Tshow - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/15/nyregion/nyc-garbage.html

There are complicating factors in NYC, as well as the fact that the average resident doesn’t pay what it actually costs for trash pickup, so moving to a private model would cost significantly more for each household. (Obviously TINSTAAFL, and this cost is just hidden in other ways. Eg taxes)

Waste hauling in NYC used to be run by the mob. It still may be to some extent, but that history has yet to be un-f*cked.

They don't even use dumpsters, they just pile bags of trash on the sidewalk. And then wonder why they have a huge rat problem.

Most of NYC does not have the physical space for dumpsters or the roadway access for dumpster lifting garbage trucks.

There are some large buildings where it would be practical, but much of the residential housing consists of buildings with <10 apartments and no alleyways (let alone driveways).

The mob ran waste hauling for businesses who did (and still do) have to contract with private companies to take away their waste- the big trial that is supposed to have got rid of most of the mob control of this business was in the mid-90s.

Residential trash in NYC is hauled away by city employees at the Department of Sanitation, and has been since the late 19th century.

Both, though, expect trash (whether from a business or from an apartment building) to be simply piled up in bags on the sidewalk.

Why default to privately owned?

Public services can be cheaper, more reliable, and you have more control than if you pay someone else to maximize their profit. NYC government has tons of experience and expertise in managing something like this.

NYC also has a ton of fraud perpetrated by gov employees.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/seventeen-new-york-city...

https://www.reuters.com/legal/bribery-fraud-charges-are-dism...

NYC government is huge; is that really a "ton"? Private business also has fraud.

Government Officials defrauding their constituents is another level higher than private business fraud. Just my opinion though YOMV.

What do you base that on?

>Public services can be cheaper

No they can be subsidized with tax money. That doesn’t mean cheaper

Just like private services need to generate shareholder profits. that doesn't mean cheaper either.

Would I rather pay garbage through taxes and fees or would I rather pay garbage and private profits through fees? In general, public services treat employees better, are more accountable to elected officials (good and bad) and aren't obligated to skim an extra little bit off the top to pay someone else. There are countless examples of privatization making services less efficient in the long run, it's not an automatic win.

Public services can be as efficient as private services. And without the overhead of dividends they are cheaper.

I wouldn't take the extreme position either way. Public and private are different tools for different jobs.

You pay for something; that's not a subsidy.

No, they can be cheaper.

Sod off with this, I've seen someone literally hospitalised because of an army of private sector contractors we've had to deal with finding ingenious efficiency savings, powered by ideologues like you. Now our costs have tripled.

Oh, and guess f*king what; now several other suppliers are bankrupt, taking their already mostly-worthless support contracts with them, because they never invested a cent in resilience, and, get this, are blaming us for giving them that power. The same power they were so adamant, just like you, that they were so good at wielding. Their only efficiency ever was stripping all resilience, not inefficency - deliberate resilience.

The private sector is made of goddamn children at times,

First of all we have both. Second of all we are a democracy, and I have never once in my entire life living here heard for anyone call for privatizing the Department of Sanitation. If anything I've heard for calls to take over private sanitation because it way more dangerous to pedestrians and workers

> Why do they even have their own fleet of garbage trucks, though?

We have both: “New York City Department of Sanitation (DSNY)…serves residential buildings, government agencies, and many nonprofit facilities. The private system is regulated by the City’s Business Integrity Commission (BIC) and consists of more than 250 waste hauling firms licensed to remove non-construction and non-industrial waste. The private haulers serve businesses ranging from small pizza parlors to large office buildings” [1]. The public system guarantees minimum service to the population.

[1] https://cbcny.org/research/12-things-new-yorkers-should-know...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com