Next-generation Qi2 wireless charging standard embraces Apple's MagSafe
macrumors.com
macrumors.com
From memory (this is about 8-10 years ago) Splashpower found that miss alignment of the coils massively impacted the performance and as a result struggled to make the multiple devices charger pad work. The magnetic alignment of Apples MagSafe system, or the chargers on the old Palm phones, should aid in making them significantly more efficient.
Ultimately Splashpower went bust, the IP was brought by Fulton Innovation who, combing it with their own IP, then went on to create the Wireless Power Consortium [1] and the Qi charging standard.
It's interesting how it's going full circle and Qi2 is now incorporating magnetic alignment.
Or, if you're an induction cooktop manufacturer, a feature.
I'm highly amused that we've gone from large / heavy coil based transformer AC adaptors, affectionately known as wall-warts, to highly efficient tiny switch-mode electronics, just to jam a poorly wound and poorly aligned coil pair back in the circuit.
My phone has 15 watt Qi charging, how novel.
I'll stick to cables.
Apple's phones are too fragile for my liking too, after having ruined a few in this environment.
I liked using Apple's gear, but it's all too precious-jewelry like for me in this industry.
If Apple did a rugged phone with a 13500 mAh battery like my current daily driver I'd switch right back.
Seems like anything with a speaker would succumb, and its more of a problem with the case you chose than the device.
With the purely induction-based method, you can, say, have connectors poolside (assuming you've got long and suitably grounded cables) with no concern from errant splashes.
Magnetic Qu charging is already a standard, they can build off it. It supports plenty of existing chargers. They released it before MagSafe. MagSafe just makes it more efficient in a way that doesn’t require more power.
I wouldn't try to do a deep charge from like 50% of something wirelessly... I've got better things to do!
Presumably an android phone (without magsafe)? My bedside charger is magsafe - it works very well and is one of those small things that works well and improves the experience.
There's a lot of stuff in the apple experience like this, that android users seem to scoff at - and then they try it and get hooked. I'm really glad Google is building their own phones and trying to push them as first class devices - iOS and iPhones desperately need strong competition.
Unfortunately iOS devices are totally uncompetitive in this important space.
Compared to most smartphones, it's pretty good, but compared to PCs it's pretty bad.
Overall, it's a sad state of affairs imo. Why do phones become obsolete so quickly when other computers can be perfectly usable for well over 10 years?
I'll answer as if this is a real question: the overall rate and pervasiveness of change for that class of device.
I suspect that 2022/2023 flagships would hold up really well 10 years from now.
Between the
- battery lifespan (a technology that has tradeoffs between lifespan and capacity, such that manufacturers target 3 year lifecycles
- driver updates and baseband security (famously out of date on older android phones, no matter what "rom" you're running)
- ports lifecycles (the charger port has a finite lifecycle of plug cycles, also often cheaped out on a bit)
- lifespan of custom ROMs (frequently losing contributors and thus updates)
Is that phone really going to last 8 years of daily active use?
I think the answer is no. Apple has made a huge effort with the iphone 14 (not pro), to re-engineer the device to make it easier to repair and recycle. We'll see if that pays off, but I don't think holding on to a phone for 8 years is feasible or practical for enough people.
Or in other words, it’s all fun and games until the flash dies because you used up the lifetime writes.
Oh, and don’t forget the reality of those “open” bootloaders, besides pixels almost all of them come with the huge caveat of wiping proprietary firmware ASAP, bringing your fancy camera’s quality to the dirt for example. So, do your phones really get a new life?
It's a small thing, but basically what I have is a magsafe stand next to my bed. I can lean over, with one hand, and rest the phone on the dock, and it latches into place. When I want the phone, I can gently tug on it - with one hand.
I have one on my desk as well. Place the phone down - never have to worry about aligning it with the qi pad, pick it up and it's been charging for however long i've been sitting.
I still don't get the hype. Like sure, its less effort, but the effort being discussed is such a trivial amount. It takes me as much effort to plug in my phone as it does to scratch my back or something. I don't even think about it. There's so many things I plug in over the course of modern life.
As opposed to having to remember to bring a cable, reaching into my bag each time to get it, plugging it in on both ends, arranging it etc.
That's closer to a minute each time.
Try groggily inserting your cable into your phone at 2AM in the morning as you remember you need to charge it. Or you could just snap it to a magnetic charging surface and be done with it. MagSafe to lightning is what USB-C is to Micro USB: not necessary, but nicer.
A tradeoff is that my cat walking on my nightstand can stop the phone from charging, but MagSafe would take care of that.
I’ve also had USB-C charging cables fail, and the springy charging pins on my Pebble weren’t great either. Lightning or USB ports on phones will also get gummed up with pocket lint. Not making a physical connection for charging just seems to work better long term.
On my office desk, I have another wireless charger, but this one is flat. Place my phone/headphone-case on it, and it's charging. If I need either - just pick it up and go. I don't have to think about plugging the cable and accidentally pulling it when I forget to unplug it.
That makes me charge my phone more often during the day (i.e. charge at 50% to 80%). During the night, it doesn't matter because the phone is slow charging to be at 100% around the time I wake rather than charge to a 100% and then sit at it the entire night.
If I do need a quick charge - I just unplug the wireless charger and charge it. Airport lounges have charging spots on tables - don't have to: a) trust their USB ports b) get cables and charger out of my bad. Cars have them.
Anyways, not going back to charging with wire anytime soon.
I'd definitely prefer to use Apple devices, but they don't work for me in my current circumstances.
Mind you, it weights half a kilo / one pound.
- Corridor Digital made a multi-phone mounting rig for recording multi-focal-length slow-mo. Lots of interesting maker possibilities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8X16Gw3Qa4
- Peak Design has a line of mounts which combine magsafe and a physical locking mechanism for sports https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/mobile
- Continuity Camera mounts (for using your phone as a webcam) is a hacky but brilliant example of where a temporary magnetic mount is extremely useful
As an Android user, this ecosystem was opened up by a Peak Design case (which is compatible), but I hope to someday have a phone with built-in magnets, too. But it's not useful unless the magnets are compatible everywhere!
Science fiction writers have envisioned this for decades. I look forward to the future of finally being able to stick my phone to more things!
And then in typical Google fashion, the concept was dropped in a year or two. Happy that Apple (and now the Qi consortium) picked it up.
A mini-Qi based on the Apple Watch charger, or a smaller ring of magnets inside with a compatible charging coil, would have been really outstanding… I feel like this standard is just another thing that will have to be revised in 3-5 years.
Unfortunately, the experience just sucks. Charging is slow, if you misalign it it doesn't charge (some devices have the coil off-center!), devices get hot while charging, chargers that work well for phones don't work for other devices...
I'm disappointed and I've mostly gone back to charging with cables.
I haven't tried any Magsafe stuff yet, but since it only works with iPhones it's a non-starter. I don't want a charger that charges just a single device.
If Qi2 gets adopted it may be worth a try, but I think ultimately wireless charging is a gimmick that may be useful in special scenarios (eg. car mount), but for the most part I don't think it's a replacement for cables.
This is solved by MagSafe, the magnets are so strong that it snaps to the device. My wife always charges her phone with Apple's MagSafe charger. I also have one, but since I only charge overnight, plugging in a cable is not much effort.
If Qi2 would become more popular, perhaps cafes, restaurants, etc. could have wireless charging spots.
wouldn't that mean if you take your phone, the charger still sticks to it?
when I was using qi, I'd have it on my desk, and of course I regularly pick up my phone with one hand to do something with it or take it with me, can't un-stick a charger at the same time with one hand...
With a heavier Magsafe charger (like most of the stands out there), you can just lift the phone off and the charger won't come with it. MagSafe's just strong enough to hold a phone on a stand or hold a charger puck to the phone, but not much more.
Once there is a universal standard every phone uses, it works 100% of the time (magsafe does help here), and is able to be completely flat (or incorporated into tables/desks), then you'll see an uptick in wireless chargers at cafes/restaurants.
I think hotels have been adopting them faster.
heck, even induction cooktop can charge phones.
> is able to be completely flat
Did you looked it up on amazon ? There are tons of flat charger.
That said, your complaint isn't uncommon. I build furniture on the side, and have built a couple desks and night stands with built-in wireless chargers for people who wanted everything hidden and out of the way. The charger gets mounted from the underside so that nothing is visible, and I inlay a marker--something like a ring or bowtie inlay--on the surface so you know where to align your phone.
I've also seen chargers on the market that can be mounted into a hole you drill or are sized to fit standard wire grommet holes common on most desks for sale. That's way less fun (IMO), but anyone can install them with a few minutes and a hole saw (or an existing grommet hole, if it fits). No clue if you can find Magsafe ones, but I'd assume so.
The slow charging is fine by me. Fast charging wears the battery out faster.
With this, I don't have to worry about lightning vs usb-c or whatever. I don't have to worry about my work phone trying to share data with my computer. I don't have to worry about annoying programs trying to sync with my personal phones lol.
[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Charger-Charging-Station-C3/...
EDIT: looks like this is the one I have https://www.ignite-supplies.com/anker-powerwave-7-5w-rectang...
> Hopefully soon we will see Android adoption of magnets for alignment.
So they did it, but stopped?
I'm still hopeful that this comes with no strings attached, but once bitten makes me twice shy.
Apple's greed has clearly hurt their own ecosystem in the past. They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole.
That was never a licensed standard overseen by a standards body.
Apple contributed to the H.264 standard, and is also a major contributor to the USB C standard, as well as the Thunderbolt standard.
> They've made it completely obvious that their goal is indiscriminate rent collection, and I'd appreciate if that attitude would remain isolated from the ideals of open computing as a whole.
You realize that’s how the entire industry works right? Cellular standards and most video and modern audio codecs are also licensed via a patent pool.
There is no such thing as “open computing” where nothing is licensed from patent holders for anything that the vast majority of people would find usable.
Do you realize how much Google makes from the patents they bought from Motorola?
If you aren’t in the Apple ecosystem, you pay Apple very little to create a cell phone, maybe a few tenths of a cent from H.264.
Now compare that to the “essential patents” you have to license to create a 4G or 5G cellphone.
a) Apple's "standards" are not a proper standard by any definition.
b) Their proprietary connectors e.g. Lightning, MagSafe have always been developed when they have believed there was a better user experience available. When there wasn't they have adopted the industry standard e.g. HDMI, USB-C, SD.
c) Apple is a massive company that hinges on having a superior user experience to the competition. The idea that programs such as MFI would compromise this in order to create an insignificant revenue stream is illogical.
With wireless-only charging, prevalence and compatibility is more important than exclusivity and using it as an USP which they usually seem to prefer.
More likely, it’s better to just have their standard be the main one so they don’t need to deal with the complexity of messaging “well this doesn’t work on our phones etc”
b) MagSafe cases exist which are also magnetic and so there is no issue with coil alignment.
Apple has many patents in this space, for instance US 10804748.
Well, I'm frankly surprised you can patent it at all, but you can cover many possible implementations in a single patent.
> Apple has many patents in this space, for instance US 10804748.
That's pretty much worthless as far as magnetic alignment. That patent is specifically geared towards foreign object detection.
Apple had about 40 patents in this space, Samsung has a bunch, etc.
Although, sadly, I suspect that Apple will continue to incorporate their own NFC identification into their Qi2 devices, and that alone will be what differentiates "MagSafe" from Qi2 -- almost certainly including limiting faster wireless charging to MagSafe.
Case 1) the device only supports wireless charging (say because it's waterproof): business as usual
Case 2) the device also has conductive metal dots: the POGO pins can then charge the device much faster.
(And yes they can get dirty etc but are also easy to clean. Not like USB ports don’t gunk up, or Qi doesn’t have issues either. Plus it’s very likely cheaper!)
Is super the real reason is this would have limited value because:
A) you have this already through cable charging
B) it’s not clear it would meaningfully change the charging speed since you’d also need a communication standard (eg USB-PD) to negotiate the charge rate
C) all of this is made moot by the fact that most people have a case on and don’t take their phone out of their case to put it on a Qi charger which negates the benefit.
So basically cost and complexity for limited to no value. Of course maybe C is solvable by extending the pin through the case but I would think it would add cost to the case + maybe create some structural challenges negating the shock absorption.
What I really hope to see is a lapdock using this tech. I have a few lapdocks (basically laptop-shaped docks for your phone) and the most annoying thing about them is dealing with the short USB-C cable you need to plug your phone in. This would open the door to wireless charging from an arm that extends from the side; if you combine that with a wireless display standard (Miracast is the main non-Apple one these days though it's not well-supported) you could have a completely wireless lapdock that still charges your phone while you use it.