IE6 Usage Falls to Under 1% in U.S.
siliconfilter.com
siliconfilter.com
https://github.com/xdissent/ievms
(it recently added support for IE6)
Dec 2009: IE 6.0 share is 37.3%
Dec 2010: IE 6.0 share is 15.5%
Dec 2011: IE 6.0 share is 6.8%
Still, this is a great trend. Dec 2009
IE6 Share: 37.3%
IE7 Share: 32.8%
IE8 Share: 13.9%
Dec 2010
IE6 Share: 15.5%
IE7 Share: 35.2%
IE8 Share: 31.9%
Dec 2011
IE6 Share: 6.8%
IE7 Share: 24.3%
IE8 Share: 43.5%More interesting in the latter case, less interesting if this is the internal wiki in some MegaCorp.
Not that it's an entirely bad thing, but since IE8 is becoming more standard, wouldn't updating to IE9 be easier?
If this keeps up two years from now virtually everyone will be on IE9/10, Chrome or Firefox.
http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php & http://www.w3counter.com/trends
And Opera.
Back when Google Search still supported IE6 as a first-class citizen, I found that very few lines of code were needed to make IE6 work. However, figuring out what those lines of code were could easily take more time than making it work in every other browser. Just the amount of time lost because I accidentally included a trailing comma made me want to throw my Windows laptop across the room.
I don't like how inaccessible HTML5 and CSS3 techniques are to older browsers. It reminds me of having to upgrade flash.
I like how we try to make sites accessible for the blind, regardless of their usage stats.
I don't like how we seem to throw away 1% of our best possible conversion rates, by fully ignoring 1% of our audiance.
I like how the web is maturing and growing.
I don't like how plain and simple information-providing websites are turning into HTML5 applications, with 100k's of javascript, hashtags and other dynamics.
I believe that in 20 years, sites that were build to render on IE6, will continue to render just fine. Sites that were build using experimental browser vendor-specific code, with AJAX and hashtags might need a special server to render. Is that progress?
EDIT: seems to be some confusion about "Sites build for IE6". I ment "Sites that render on IE6/were build with IE6 in mind". To me that doesn't auto-translate to active-x, MS-filters, conditional rules, IE7.js and CSS hacks, but I can see how others can view that. Anyway, I am clearly playing with fire, by taking these views on IE6. I'll just let this be and not delete it. It wasn't a troll or a flame, but this topic is always a heated one, so best to just let it be.
What is more important to me is that older web sites continue to be browseable (to some degree, bit perfect rendering isn't essential) 20 years from now.
Sites built for IE6 aren't necessarily that, though. They may be using ActiveX for "cool" functionality that stopped being cool years ago.
In short: non-fancy may be better, in some ways, than fancy. Outdated fancy is surely not better than current fancy.
Because these technologies came into existence after these browsers were made. Such is progress.
>I like how we try to make sites accessible for the blind
This is a law, and being blind is rarely a choice.
>sites that were build to render on IE6, will continue to render just fine
Because they were built with two codebases, one for regular browsers, one for IE6. Double the work for that 1%.
>experimental browser vendor-specific code
Browser specific code? Yes, if that code doesn't become standard. But IE6 required a lot of browser-specific code. The hopes are that the browser specific code gets the recognition for its usefulness and becomes part of the still-in-progress standard.
>Is that progress?
Yes.
An example: the "about page" for Google Music. You need to download the newest Chrome to view it. I don't call it progress if accessibility and backwards compatibility get the shaft.
>>This is a law, and being blind is rarely a choice.
Two things: I hope you make sites accessible for the blind, not because it is law, but simply because you want the blind to access your content. Put another way: If it wasn't for the law, we could forget about the blind too? Accessibility needs a law for front-end engineers to take note?
Being on IE6 is rarely a choice too, especially in a corporate environment.
>>Because they were built with two codebases, one for regular browsers, one for IE6. Double the work for that 1%.
You don't need exceptions to make sites render on IE6. You only need exceptions if you start implementation in a modern browser, and make IE6 a minute after-thought.
>> But IE6 required a lot of browser-specific code.
Only if _you_ required hacks to make a design work.
>>Is that progress? Yes.
I don't think that was the progress that Tim Berners Lee had in mind. A progress where HTML documents from the HTML5 era become inaccessible to later generations.
Disclaimer: I am able to build sites that render in IE6, without much hacks or troubles or extra work, but I don't like working around its quirks. I don't have a strong opinion on why and when IE6 should die, and I certainly don't want to play that judge with my clients websites. I want maximum accessibility, and that includes IE6 in my opinion.
I disagree. IE6 doesn't support a lot of standards that other browsers supported, mainly due to not keeping up with changing standards.
>If it wasn't for the law, we could forget about the blind too?
Note that I said "being blind is rarely a choice", implying that we should code for the blind because they did not choose their limitations. If you're forced to use IE6 in a corporate environment, it's because the designer of a web app wrote it for IE6, not for "the internet Tim Berners Lee had in mind". No one is forcing you to use entertainment-based web apps at work, in fact your management might discourage it.
>I don't think that was the progress that Tim Berners Lee had in mind. A progress where HTML documents from the HTML5 era become inaccessible to later generations.
And you think that the designers of floppy disks intended for them to be thrown out when USB drives came into existence? THIS IS PROGRESS This is what progress does. Technology changes. Don't code for current technology, code for maintainability. If your code works on IE6 but is broken in newer browsers, your code is broken by design. There is a standard, and code that follows it will work in browsers that respect it. IE6 does neither.
You honestly seem to be arguing that IE6 was a perfectly compatible browser and was the pinnacle of browser design. I think you'll find a lot of disagreement, even from Microsoft themselves. We know enough about security these days to know that not upgrading is a bad idea.
If I honestly seem to be arguing that, I apologize. It also means this discussion is fruitless, because counterarguments are based on a perception that no one here holds. If anything I view IE6 as an accessibility issue.
> You don't need exceptions to make sites render on IE6. >> I disagree.
Hackernews renders on IE6 and it doesn't need exceptions. You don't need exceptions to make sites render on IE6. You might need a work-around or two (for example: opting for padding, instead of margin). You can still both code to standards and have it render without exceptions on IE6.
>>implying that we should code for the blind because they did not choose their limitations.
I disagree. User choice or forced, disability or no: accessibility is for everyone. Wether people choose to turn off javascript or their browser forces them shouldn't make a difference. Choice is no pre-requisite for accessibility, unless you make that choice for your users.
>> THIS IS PROGRESS This is what progress does.
In your analogy, at least you still have access to the data on the floppies. And if our current progress destroys the initial ideas for progress from authorities like TBL, doesn't that give reason to pause and reconsider the way we are heading?
There's something to be said about backwards compatibility. It doesn't exist, it shouldn't exist, and clinging to it holds back progress. Well designed code should just work, full-stop. Look at the jumble that is Windows, or Linux. Mac OSX is highly regarded, it's fast, its stable, and it "just works" so they say. It also has no backwards compatibility to worry about. How many lines of code are in Windows or Linux solely to make antique software work because the designer used unportable code?[1]
Design your production sites to the standard and they will last forever, regardless of what browser you use. Design them for IE6 and they will forever be broken.
Regardless, neither you nor I can change the course of the Internet. All we can do it sit back, enjoy the ride, and write code that works.
[1] http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html (search for SimCity)
I don't think he had IE6's non-standard quirks in mind, either. Had they not come up with their own standard, the concept of graceful degradation would certainly have been easier.
[1] Which is stupid considering that the overwhelming majority of add-ons need exactly one fix, and that's the version check, which can be disabled with the Compatibility Reporter add-on.
[2] And then proceed to switch to Chrome. Oh the irony.
This is the issue. Most people don't know this. I was (1) an avid firefox user from the alpha stage and even I didn't know about the compatibility reporter with out some serious Googling, they should advertise it better
Especially since plugins are far and away firefox's strong suit over other browsers and they want to go with the new update scheme and change the version numbers so much.
(1) Sadly no longer am, due to the memory issues the Chrome team figured out how to fix. I still use it occasionally because I miss its much better user experience but until they get the multi process model done Chrome just uses resouces so much better I can't justify it
That said, refusing to upgrade from 3.6 or 4 still seems crazy.
Switch to another browser if you don't like the new FF.
I'd assume you are talking about Google search? No they won't. 100% guarantee you Google will still support FF3.6, just like Google does, and always will always support IE6. jQuery, YUI, and all the JS libraries will always support IE6 as well. You should never go to any of these major sites and see JS errors & major rendering flaws in legacy browsers. If you do, that is just careless.
The reason I bring it up is because there is a biiiiiiiiig middle-ground of "support", and developers who don't realize this, need to. Legacy users don't need, and shouldn't expect the same experiences, but they still need support. You are still talking about Web browsers here. The Web doesn't have versions.
http://gmailblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/our-plans-to-support-m...
[Update]
Firefox 3.6 is already unsupported.
I prefaced my post by saying "I'd assume you are talking about Google search?"
But FF isn't so bad. Without the backing of big corp (which is what kept IE6 in this game so long) there is no or almost no pressure to make sure new homepages still works.
You're talking about the versioning scheme, which I agree wasn't the best idea. However, the version number by itself never carries information. It's not an argument, it's nit-picking on trivial, completely unimportant details.
The release model itself (four channels, six weeks life cycle for release) is extremely good (there's a reason they copied it from Chrome, as much as I dislike the browser) and needed for a project such as Firefox. Longer release cycles just can't keep up with the development of the web in the long run, and provide much less direct feedback for the developers. Just calling it bullshit for no reason whatsoever is exactly the problem I was talking about.
In some areas, yes. In some areas, they're even ahead of the competition. Other areas still lack however, WebGL, as you mention is one of them.
Sadly, their slow update-cycle means that whatever they release will soon lack the latest features that other browsers support.
Such as? (Not trying to be rude here, I'm seriously interested)
(I'm just going by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_%... , I haven't had the time to stay fully up to date on this lately either)
Congrats Microsoft for spending so much effort phasing out an old product!
Oh, we still have to kill 3 editions of IE and the xp operations system (too bad, it was pretty good).
The best hope to get rid of IE 8 is the same thing that killed IE 6 for good: popularity for the recent version of Windows. If Vista didn't falter the way it did, we would have had less time on IE 6, due to adoption of Vista's preinstalled IE 7.
Perhaps the solution is to develop a flash replacement for the HTML5 elements that we can then force feed IE and all you have to do is include that script on a page to give your users a modern expericence, even if they have to be dragged into it.
For a country that I usually think of as "high-tech" (and the same place that gave us Ruby), that's not what I would've expected.
Heck NSS supports it so Firefox and Chrome must be good for SEED (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=478839)
Anybody have knowledge on this?
Seems like someone would look at that and consider America's advanced usage of the web as a potential competitive advantage, rather than rush through legislation to hobble it.
this same piracy is why the Business Software Alliance was originally a SOPA supporter.
IE 6 was a true pain point, but still, I've gained tons of knowledge on how to debug rendering issues.
But seriously - who is making this claim - it's Microsoft, it's "political" embarrassment?
I'd like to know what Google thinks from their user-agent logs.
I bet a good chunk of IE6 user-agents are from bots too.
But IE8 support is now the new "Netscape Navigator 4", admittedly not quite as bad.