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Comment by chatmasta | Hacker News Reader

Hey, I know this holiday! It was one of the questions on the Life in the UK test. Finally I feel a little bit more British than the average HNer.

Another fun fact, which is in the linked Wikipedia article but also inescapably in my head: Hogmanay traditions include singing the folk song "Auld Lang Syne" by the Scottish poet Robert Burns aka "The Bard" who wrote poems in the Scots language.

Thanks to Anki I've retained this information and now I like to tell people trivial facts about British life every chance I get.

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In general, the Scots would not appreciate being called British, or lumped in with the British. So if you find yourself making use of this retained information in mixed company (ie, with a Scotsman) be sure to remember that Scottish != British.

This reads like a No True Scotsman argument

Scotland is part of Great Britain. The "British" adjective basically denotes anything under Britain.

The Scottish language isn't in the Brittonic family. It is Anglic. However, English is also Anglic and not Brittonic, yet the English don't mind calling themselves British.

Go figure.

So which people(s) do you think are British, then?

Not sure how true a scotsman you are but I never heard that. It's fine to be called British, because (at least for now) that's accurate. What annoys scots is to be called English.

Perhaps you're thinking of the issue with sports reporting? (Where a Scottish athlete who wins is called British by the English press but when they lose they're Scottish?)

Who exactly do you think “the British” are?

This (Scots != British) is not true, and it also is not universally true that all Scots would dislike being called British. True Scottish folk are Scottish first, British second, English never :) But many Scottish people are proud British citizens. I have a Scottish father who can confirm this.

Maybe sample bias then, most scots I've met resent the association, and are keen to dissolve it if possible. I think there's even a referendum upcoming to test the notion? Not sure on that bit.

It's the Venn diagram from hell, you know, and perhaps something went amiss in translation.

There's been a referendum (and may yet be another, not to mention numerous wars of years gone by) on the matter of being joined with the English as part of the United Kingdom - but that's not the same as digging a channel and casting adrift from the island of Great Britain, shared with other British folk such as the Welsh, the Cornish, and even (hack, spit) the English.

Are you, perhaps, conflating Britain and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? There’s a potential upcoming referendum about the latter, not the former.

I think it's still a thing some people wouldn't like. Like if you had a super-hardline Unionist in Northern Ireland, and you insisted they were Irish (because they are from the island of Ireland) they might get a little upset.

I made a comment elsewhere saying that people shouldn't get upset about getting called "British" if they consider themselves Scottish above all. But likewise I don't think it's smart or considerate to be all "well actually..." about something deeply personal and strongly felt like someone's national identity or gender or anything like that. That's sort of asking for conflict.

Many Scots I know, including some serving in the British Army, disagree. Many Scots do wish to remain British and it isn't wise to make "in general" statements on a divisive issue.

A fair enough point.

To be fair it's not like they can serve in the Scottish Army is it.

I don’t think that’s what was meant. Squaddies tend be way more pro-Britain and pro-Royalty than the rest of the public. I have some ideas on why that might be, but it’s probably true throughout the rest of the world (ie there aren’t likely many pro-Basque or Catalan separatists in the Spanish army, or Quebec nationalists in the Canadian army)

I'm Scottish and British. Without getting too far into the politics of it, Scotland is literally on the island of Great Britain. From a purely geographical standpoint, Scottish people are British.

What other term would you use to describe people from the constituent nations of Great Britain?

63% of residents of Scotland describe themselves as Scottish only - not British.

18% Scottish and British, 8% British only.

https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/webapi/jsf/tableView/tabl...

Results were similar in 2011 too.

Canadians aren't Americans in a sense of "citizens of USA", but in geographical sense they are. The same applies here.

Using a specific definition of a word to tell people they’re wrong about their own identity usually doesn’t go over very well.

“British” almost always means “identifies with the UK”.

Your link is broken. Are you able to provide another one?

What do they put on a form when asked their nationality? Last time I checked my passport says "British".

I always put Scottish. British would also be acceptable.

A few people telling you that you’re wrong when you’re correct, a lot of Scots (myself included) do not like to identify as British.

Yes, Scotland is within the island of Britain but many of us (though not all) identify as Scottish, not British.

This seems to come up a lot online and I wonder what percentage of people making the corrections are actually Scottish…

Fairly meaningless. Some do, some don’t. Personal annecdotes are useless as there’s plenty of Scots that identify as British and plenty of Scots that identify as Not British. Hell there’s plenty of people living in Scotland that don’t identify as Scottish.

The census puts is about 2 in 3 as Scottish Only though, not British, which is usable data.

I get the impression the OP is an American. Plenty of people in America believe they are Scottish despite their entire experience of Scotland being a day trip to Edinburgh and some tourist shop selling them a kilt because their great-granddad was born in Aberdeen.

I know you mean well - there are people who do believe that and they would take offence to being called “British”. They need to learn to handle it though. As a Scot who would describe themselves as “Scottish” when asked my nationality and who probably has similar feelings about Scottish independence as those people - I feel like this kind of nitpicking is unhelpful and allows opposition to dismiss us as naive, petty and tribal. People getting all puffed up needlessly is embarrassing and you’d think by now they’d be used to whatever triggers this response, roll their eyes instead and generally take the high road.

Yes I’m Scottish, my passport says “British” and I share a lot of things culturally with our friends south of the border to the point that I would weigh in on any topic about “British” issues as one of them. Whether I like it or not, I’m as British as any English or Welsh person.

That's like Canadians/Mexicans objecting to be called American when they do live in North America.

I've not heard of Scots objecting to the use of Britain/British, but they (and the Welsh) would most definitely complain (and rightly so) if anyone referred to them as English.

Yawn.

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